lunabee34 | To OTP or not, that is the question

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To OTP or not, that is the question

As part of the fascinating discussion over in

sga_talk, one of the things we've been talking about is OTP and it got me to thinking (which, yes, is dangerous).

I am not an OTPer. In the beginnings of my fannish days, I was very devoted to Spike/Xander but after some time I began to suffer from Spander fatigue and had to search out other pairings. While I always enjoy the popular pairing of a fandom (Sam/Dean, Jack/Daniel, John/Rodney), my propensity for pairing fatigue still remains. At this point in my fannishness, what I am mostly coming to the table for is to be convinced that these wonderful things (whatever they may be--plot, backstory, pairing, secret, possible future) that never occurred to me are indeed plausible and OMG WHY DID I NOT THINK OF THEM? For that reason, I am very interested in rare pairings and in tangential characters; I think that predilection is neatly summed up in my Bates/Kavanagh fascination. :) So while I love to read and write McShep, I also really wish Sheppard was doing it with Caldwell. (I will not again subject you guys to that detailed fantasy.)

I do not approach fandom through an OTP lens. I'm okay if John and Rodney aren't together; I'm okay if they are angry with each other or mean to each other or if they break up with each other or if *gasp* they never even meet each other. I like for my characters (both written and read) to behave in ways that can be extrapolated from their canon characterization, but that's really about it for me in terms of requirement.

I like to be *surprised* by fanfic. The way I define fanfic for myself is taking the bare bones of canon and building up layers of new flesh so that the animal I create is subtly (or sometimes drastically) different than the animal canon gives us. And after awhile, if all I am reading is one pairing, I stop being surprised. Does this keep me from writing or reading said pairing? Hell no. :) But it does make me long for a wildfire of Lorne/EVERYFREAKINGBODYOMG to sweep through fandom and it does make those main pairing fics that manage to do something completely unexpected that much sweeter.

The only pairing that perhaps approaches the OTP for me is Sam/Dean, mostly because at this point in SPN canon I have a very difficult time believing that either of them could have successful relationships with anyone but each other. But, boy, do I like to read about them trying! LOL

So my question for y'all is this: Are you an OTPer? If you OTP, do you have only one (METHOS!) or do you have an OTP for each fandom? How do you think being an OTPer affects your fannish experience? If you're not an OTPer, why not? How do you think not reading/writing through that lens affects your fannish experience?

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I make a distinction between fictional fiction and non-fictional fiction, if you see what I mean. If there's a canon ship, then we have to work with it or go AU. There are ships that I think are reasonably indicated by subtext. So I might believe that in canon X and Y are doing it. However, since they don't exist, it really doesn't matter whether I write a story with X/Y, or X/Z, Y/Giant Squid. And if I can write an interesting story about X/B, or someone else writes wonderful Y/K/penguin, that's more than fine with me. Because what I'm going to do with a story is write it or read it, not examine it for truth value.

I really don't think of myself as an OTPer although most of my fanfic is about one pairing. I really like the potential for a Scott/Logan relationship, so I've mined that a lot. But I'm mostly interested in both of them or either of them, paired with people or not. When I hear "OTP" I think of people who don't want to read about their guys paired with anyone else.

I love reading Scott/Jean. I always say if my Scott weren't gay they'd still be together and for versions of Scott who isn't, I think they're a really interesting couple. I also like reading him paired with other people - men and women - if it's done believably and written well. I have a lot of trouble with Scott/Student stories because I just don't see how that would work with his by-the-books character, at least not without a lot of guilt and soul-searching (and the ones I've read tend to be romantic fluff) but other than that I'll take most any pairing with him. Well maybe not Scott/Charles.

I also like to read Logan paired with a variety of characters, preferably someone with some contrast to him.

In Star Wars fandom I am most taken with QuiGon/Obiwan, just because of what you see in TPM, but again I don't feel anything negative about other pairings for either of them and enjoy reading other couples stories when done well. And I can't even begin to understand the vehemence of the pairing wars in HP fandom...

I don't even believe in OTP in real life, much less in fanfic.

Heh - the icon says most of it.

But honestly, in my last fandom (Xena) I started out all OTP for Gabrielle/Joxer, but there was so precious little Joxer anything but Joxer/Ares being written that I began reading that, leading me into the deep waters of slash for the first time. Then I started adding Xena to the G/J mix, landing finally at an OT3. I even wrote a couple of Joxer slash pieces. Rob Tappert always said "Bring your own subtext," and most people in that fandom could, and did.

Now, I see that there are those who OT3 the youngest 3 Original Scoobies, but I'm not enough of a Willow fan to go there. I do love Spander, but can't write it to save my life. And my OTP is becoming a sinking 'ship. As the once prolific Serenity Goddess pointed out in the last story she wrote before quitting entirely, "7 years is a long time to want something." Most people just gave up. Joss seemed to dictate the relationships Buffy was allowed to have, and we were never one of them.

I do think being a 'shipper has affected everything I write. I need to love and care about the characters I write, and nothing makes me do so more than two unhappy people who clearly need each other to make their world a happier place (YMMV). In both my fandoms, I've seen this and tried to write to that need. I think that drives a lot of 'shippers to their chosen pairing, in my opinion.

No, I'm not an OTPer...I know people think I am (at least in BTVS) because I only write Willow/Spike fic but that's more about the characters I'm most comfortable writing than OMG They totally belong together thinking. I'll read most pairings...as long as Xander isn't involved. :) I tried to just be a loyal Spillow shipper once, but fact remains I also like Willow/Angel, Willow/Giles, Willow/Ethan, Spike/Dawn, Spike/Tara...even the occasional Spike/Giles or Giles/Ethan. So I gave up. I don't write the other pairings because I'm not necessarily comfortable writing certain characters but I'll read them.

I have always believed that a good writer can make any pairing work. I read in several fandoms, and the only one that comes close to OTP for me is The Sentinel (because of the Sentinel/Guide thing), but even in that fandom I've read a few good non-Jim/Blair stories (especially one story in which Blair was paired with Alex Krycek of The X Files). The only reason I don't read more pairings than I do already is that I'm limited by the number of hours I have available for reading in a given week (never enough! :).

I honestly don't understand why anyone would insist that there can only only One True Pair (or how another pairing could never happen) -- whenever I read that, it makes me wonder how rigid they are in their overall thinking.

As much as I love McShep, I've also read great Sheppard/Dex, Sheppard/Lorne, McKay/Dex, and -- my favorite rare SGA pairing -- Lorne/Parrish.

I agree with most of what you've said and it describes my reading pretty well, too. I like being convinced of pairings...of course the problem is that so much fic is written for shippers, so there's no convincing going on (so rare pairings are actually better that way, since they do have to convince people).

The only time I have been OTPish is with Louis and Lestat from Vampire Chronicles, but even then I liked fic with them with others so long as it fit in the canon timeline (like Louis/Armand during the years Louis thought Lestat was dead).

I really used to consider myself an OTPer. Since being introduced to "Supernatural" half-way through the first season, I was only into SAM/DEAN, and then later when the RPS bit bit the rest of us, JENSEN/JARED. I had always had these ideas of the perfect pairings in various fandoms (from Mal/Simon to Piper/Leo to Daniel/Jack and more), but since I began branching out into Livejournal, I have, you could say, had my 'eyes opened' regarding pairings. I have been surprised, and while some of them are just wrong in so many ways and not believable at all, most pairings that I read or that catch my eye turn out to be interesting.

For instance, I never really entertained the concept of Sam/Ellen before I read a certain story (can't even remember it now), but since then, I can't get enough of it!

I love reading new stuff, and if it's believable (you're right, a certain pairing would just not work), I grow attached to it. I think I have lost my OTP ways and no longer get angry if someone dare pair one of my favorite characters with someone else outside the designated OTP.

I really hope this comment made sense; I wrote it quickly on my way out the door.

Hmmm. I'm an OTPer to the extent that I'd rather read McShep than gen, and John and Rodney are my favourite characters. That means I like seeing them with other people, if they're happy/stable (which I don't necessarily think they *would* be together). I'm actually sad when an author breaks up a viable pairing just so John and Rodney can get together - sometimes I just don't buy it. I'll read stories focusing on either of them, John without Rodney moreso than the other way around because Rodney's really come into his own on Atlantis and it's difficult (and sad) to imagine him without that influence. I really like the stories where they've stayed just friends because they tend to have greater emotional complexity - for example, the author has to deal with how close they are and address their partners' insecurities about that.
I happen to think that John and Rodney, as a couple, would fight a lot, and would be more likely than not to break up because they don't have the emotional tools to fight constructively; they hit below the belt, and they (sometimes deliberately, if they're feeling trapped) take things the wrong way, and most of all they have a tendency to run away instead of staying and working things through. That, to me, gives them ongoing tension, even in established-relationship fic, which is what brings me back to McShep time and time again.
Wow, I'd never really thought that through before

pretty cool question!

I have found, much to my surprise, that I'm pretty much an OTP person, in that I mostly enjoy fics dedicated to the most popular OTP in a particular fandom. although that could be because a lot of good writers are writing that OTP, y'know?

OTOH, I'm usually open to other pairings, if a writer I like goes there, or recommends a fic that goes there. So I OTP, but not rabidly so, if you get the distinction....

Interesting and thought-provoking! I'm on a break and must run to meet

machinistm in a bit, but as always, I wouldn't classify myself at all in a general way--I watch plenty of shows for the characters and storylines alone (Friday Night Lights, Dexter, Life, The Sarah Connor Chronicles, and so on and so forth) and read or write genfic in small quantities for them, but other shows' pairings get me on an emotional, read: mad 'shipper level. I couldn't *not* ship Buffy/Faith and Buffy/Spike on BtVS; their interaction and dynamics shaped my whole perception. Same for John/Rodney--while I can see and occasionally read or write other pairings for these my OTP shows, my pairing goggles (see, it ain't slash or het or femslash for me, or canon and unconventional relationship) will stay on and will influence all the non-pairing (say, Teyla/Rodney)-related events.

One of the things that makes me an OTPer is that different pairings lend themselves to different themes, and usually there's not more than one possible pairing in a show that really lends itself to themes I'm interested in. At least that's how it starts.

For me, pairings are a characterization issue as much as they are a shipping thing -- there are some pairings I just cannot believably see the characters I know from canon in, no matter how good the writer is. Likewise, there are some characters for whom their relationship with/feelings for Other Character X are a vital part of their characterization. A Spike who doesn't love Drusilla and/or Buffy (depending on where you are in canon) isn't actually Spike, anymore than a Rogue who doesn't love Gambit is actually Rogue (or a Gambit who doesn't love Rogue, or a Starsky & Hutch who aren't codependantly attched to one another, or an Iron Man who isn't in love with Captain America).

When I OTP a pairing, it's because I perceive the characters' feelings for one another to be canon -- any fic that doesn't include them will therefore read as OOC.

What an interesting discussion.

I started out as what was called, in TOS fandom, a OTAPer. I liked the One Truly Awful Pairing. K/S was the ship of choice, and I didn't even really grok what slash was at the time, and shipped S/Ch which was enough to earn you a cold shoulder from just about everyone. The original flame wars on the echoes... ahh, good times, good times.

I find that every fandom I've gone through, I've picked up an OTP of sorts - in the sense that it's my favorite pairing. Sometimes there wasn't much to choose from (The Pretender, La Femme Nikita) and sometimes lots (Buffy, SG1) and I was sometimes surprised that my initial impulse to who the pairing would be turned out completely wrong (Enterprise).

Buffy was the first fandom I got really invested in over the OTP. I was Buffy/Spike all the way, and a redemptionista to boot. There was certainly a lot of strife in the fandom with Spuffy VS the Ducks. ::shakes head:: Ahh, fandom, how you wank. *grin*

I agree with what someone else said, about how I need to really emotionally resonate with the ship for it to work for me. I thought it was interesting about how we all have different motivations for writing - I enjoy using fic to explore the what ifs, or to ret-con the gaps that make no sense. I love team fics and plot driven stories, but I have to admit that mostly I really want to see the pairings I enjoy in fic because I'm never going to get them onscreen.

I also agree with you; I had been skipping over the established relationship fic, and I wasn't sure why. You totally nailed it - I want to be convinced that it is real, that it is workable, that it is happening. I think this is why I love the pre slash and the first time McShep fics *so* much. I love all the different ways it could happen, I love it when the writer sells me on it. I totally buy the ship, but I still want to be convinced.

I do read other pairings, just not as often. I read Spander, GAnya, Spangel in Buffy fandom, but I favor JackN'Sam have zero interest in Jack/Daniel slash. It's not likely I am going to read it. Maybe if it's a writer I really like. Perhaps. But not likely.

Thanks for asking interesting questions! I enjoyed that!

I'm an incurable romantic and have been my whole life. Nearly with all of my fandoms (with the exception of Narnia and the television show "Life", for which I have no pairings), I have at least one pairing that I would defend to the death. My own OCD means those pairings are canonical, with only one exception, that being Hiro/Claire from "Heroes", with which only a dozen others agree.

Because of its singular nature, the phrase "OTP" messes with my sense of correctness. How could I ever have just one?

I'm totally NoTP, too. For me, it's because there are so many more potential stories you can tell with different combinations of characters. Stories that make sense for Ronon/Rodney are different stories than those that work for John/Rodney, or for Teyla/Rodney, for that matter. There are characters I prefer, and pairings I prefer, but a sufficiently skilled writer with a sufficiently interesting story will get me no matter what the pairing - or with gen.

I'm a bit of a strange OTPer, I usually OTP one half of the pairing like crazy, and the other not so much.

For example McShep. I find it OK to read, and actually enjoy stories where Rodney is with other characters, Katie, Teyla, Radek, etc etc. But the only person EVER in the world for John is Rodney, that's it!! OMG In my universe John is madly in love with Rodney. So I can't read John/Ronon, or John/Elizabeth, no matter how wonderful the writer is.

I've have this with other pairings as well, in Xena I was happy for Xena to have the fling with Ares, or Borias and Callisto, that was fine, but Gabrielle could only ever be with Xena.

So does this make me half a OTPer?

(here from metafandom)

You know, I'm a huge Spuffy fan. But anyone reading my fic probably wouldn't guess that - if anything, I tend to have Buffy ending up with Xander.

The reason being, the show did everything I wanted with Spuffy, so I don't really need to fill in any gaps. And because I love the relationship so much, the idea of writing it (and possibly getting it wrong) terrifies me. Whereas I'm not invested in Buffy/Xander, so I'm much more comfortable writing it.

This is a really interesting post, and I love your personal definition of fanfic. I'm certainly not an OTPer in any fandom, possibly because I read so much gen - I'm quite happy to start with a suspension of disbelief and see what happens, with relationships or anything else.

The thing I really don't like is the kind of fic where the writer's OTP is seen as so natural and inevitable that they either don't bother to let the reader in on why or what the relationship is, or they design the whole fictional world so that everything and everyone either supports the relationship or is totally evil and must be crushed by falling rocks.

Here via

metafandom. I consider myself someone who has OTPs, but I don't consider myself an OTPer, if that makes sense? Like… hmmm. There's fandom A, where I OTP G and B like burning. I have little interest in reading them paired with other people, in theory, but in practice I have an interest in branching out. It's compatible, in my mind, because they're… them, and with the characters as such, they canonically have a very intense, rocky relationship that would allow me to pair them with other people for sexual or even emotional connection while still being in love with each other.

Then there's fandom C, where one of the characters is canonically not only in love with but involved with multiple other people. To disregard that would likely be a disservice to his character, but my OTP has him in a relationship with one character who he's never seen in a romantic relationship with in canon. I OTP in that I balk at the idea of shipping him with anyone else, but it would be flat-out silly to deny that he doesn't have/hasn't had sex with other people, so, again, I've written that with the thought in my mind that he is in love with this other character.

It's complicated. These are my pairings, though I'll read outside them (particularly if the author of the alternate pairing also ships them, mind, because there's more chance she'll keep what draws me to them as a pairing valued as they write the characters paired with different people). I consider them OTPs. But I don't consider myself bound by them. It helps that my OTPs tend to be people who are strongly attached to each other in some way in their respective canons, and thus I'm just as cool with gen as I am with porn. But. Yeah. ♥ OTPs.

Here from metafandom. Honestly before your post I'd never heard OTP being referred to as the popular pairing. In the context I have heard of it as the number one pairing for a particular person. As in if someone asks me what my OTP is I would answer A/R (from BSG) as that is my favourite pairing from that show but it doesn't necessarily mean it is the most popular pairing (though it is now it wasn't always that way).

In your definition of OTP I'd probably be more then likely not to be drawn to the most popular pairing usually because the most popular is also the most popular stereotypical pairing- young, hot, hetro and hero characters. That's too dull for me, I like characters to have a few years on them and have more complications in their lives that makes the formation of the pairing difficult or a challenge.

Here from metafandom.

I've never been an OTP kind of person. It always seemed kind of boring, so I've pretty much always tended to read anything for any pairing that tickled my fancy. Waaaay back when I'd just started high school and most of anime fandom was based on Geocities, I had a little online shrine for my favourite threesome - with pages and pages about which OTHER cast members I liked putting the three of them with. And then, of course, there's the fact that nowadays I rarely read anything just for romance - I read anything with a summary that intrigues me, be it het, slash or gen.

It sort of excites me to see someone else who likes being surprised by fanfic. When I see lots of people complaining about how fics aren't labelled enough and they need to know whether Sasuke or Naruto is topping in order to determine whether a link is worth clicking on, it makes me sigh. Sure, warn for triggery stuff, but I like it when there are secrets and surprises too!

I think one of the big difficulties with talking about OTP's is that everyone defines "OTP" differently!

I mean, the term literally means "One True Pairing," but I know I've seen a lot of people talk about OTP's like that, in the plural. And for some people OTP means they really, truly cannot picture one half of that pairing with anyone else; but for others it means that pairing reflects or embodies the type of relationship they have or would like to have in real life; while for still others, it is the relationship that most entertains them or turns them on. Some people have a hard time finding OTPs in canon relationships or fandom's popular pairings (due to pairing fatigue or overexposure or whatnot), while some people have a hard time with non-canon OTPs.

For me, I will read anything you put in front of me, and if it's well-written I'll bookmark it and rec it to anyone I know in fandom, but I consider my OTP's to be Ron/Hermione from Harry Potter and Jayne/River from Firefly.

I think of R/Hr as an OTP principally because I identify with canon!Hermione: a ton of book smarts, a streak of social activism, a buttload of insecurities relating to being a social outcast when I was younger, a temper that sometimes finds inappropriate expression, a bit of arrogance, a mothering instinct, and a really deep loyalty and attachment to my friends. I identify with Hermione and I want a Ron, dammit! I don't care if he's my intellectual equal; I want someone who knows my flaws inside and out and loves me anyway, someone with whom I'll strike sparks off of for the rest of my life, someone I can have vocal and cheerful fights with, someone whose loyalty to me is as absolute as mine would be to him. Oddly, despite the fact that R/Hr are an OTP because I identify with them, I can read fic where they are with other people no problem, as long as there's no character bashing and the end of the canon relationship is dealt with somehow.

Rayne, on the other hand, is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. They're not a canon relationship -- and indeed, if the relationship started in the canon timeline I would see it ase heavily problematic. However, I don't consider it a crack pairing because in the way I read the characters, a few years down the road they have a lot to offer each other, and may even be each other's salvation. Now, I don't identify with River, and I think I would be freaked out by Jayne IRL. But the way they (or, at least the way I interpret their characters as given in canon) interact and strike sparks from each other ... fascinates me, I guess you could say. And for some reason, I CANNOT read fic of them with anyone else!

So,
R/Hr = myrelationship = sure, I can read about them with other people!
Rayne = notmyrelationship = STFU, other pairings, they're made for each other!
This is an obvious contradiction. I do not know why it is. But it certainly affects my fannish experience.

...and I'm sorry I rambled all over your journal.

I'm a serial OTPer (as in one for each show, and only one) even though sometimes I really wish I weren't. I find that to begin with, when I'm watching a new TV show, I will watch it for the show. After a while when I've committed to an OTP, I'll start reading/writing fanfic etc and skip all the canon scenes that don't have them in it or I watch those other scenes for plot's sake to get to the OTP scenes. Kind of ruins the whole experience, actually. *am now bitter with this conclusion*

via MF! *g*

I agree with the above people about it depending on the definition of OTP. I tend to be seen as an OTP author because I write about a limited number of pairings, but I get into trouble because a) sometimes I write conflicting pairings (oh, the hate I've gotten from Remus/Sirius shippers who think I'm betraying them with Remus/Severus!) and b) when I start writing a pairing, I, ah, like to take it apart to see what makes it tick. Sometimes things get broken. Oops.

As a reader, I definitely choose which pairings to read, but it feels more like choosing which flavour of ice cream I want at 31 (chocolate-dipped McShep, or -- ooh! -- raspberry Dex/Zelenka...) than an OMG OTP FTW death to the infidels kind of passion. Some days I want things one way, that's all. I also read for warnings, so if that branding fic is Shep/Zelenka, well, bring it on!

There is also the scale of easy vs hard pairings. Some -- usually (coincidentally?) the main pairings in a fandom -- are very easy and therefore tend to leap into established relationships. Others are damned hard to convince readers of, and those tend to be really convincing. If you can write convincing Sheppard/Todd, or Umbridge/Dumbledore, or Pince/Lockhart, then I'm in my happy place.

Here from

metafandom

I'm most definately *not* an OTP-er. Sure there are a few pairings I *love* rather than just like (sometimes in line with either canon or popular fandom pairings, but sometimes not) but basically I'll read anything as long as it has a good plot, no character bashing and no characters I hate in main roles! I'll read het, slash or femslash (and gen). I love variety. I'm constantly trying new fandoms, new types of stories, and yes new pairings. Otherwise I get bored ;)

I'll read pairings I don't particularly understand liking. I've *never* understood why Jack/Daniel is the most popular SG-1 pairing, but it is and thus there's loads of great fanfic out there written for it. I'd lose out on all those great fics if I chose not to read them because of the pairing *shrug*.

Aside from reading what's available, I also often have cravings for particular pairings, whether popular or rare - and it's not only possible for my favourite pairings to incoporate the same people, it's likely - after all, I love those characters. So in Firefly, I like to read River/Mal and River/Jayne (and occasionally femslash) because River is my favourite character. In Angel, Cordelia's my favourite, so most of the pairings I read are about her (with the exception of the odd Angel slash pairing).

When it comes to canon, of course, there are certain pairings I definately want to be together. The vast majority of them are either actual canon pairings or the "will they won't they" UST type, though not always (Logan/Rogue isn't canon but I really wish it was). That's not the same as fandom preferences, though. Certain pairings I may love in canon but find a bit boring in fanfiction. Others make wonderful fanfics but would be completely out of place in canon (e.g. Giles/Cordelia, or any slash pairings of straight guys).

I think a lot of the time what I read is determined by the plotline. I crave, say, a time travel fic, and so I go looking for one, regardless of pairing.

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A good writer can make any pairing work

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via metafandom

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