lunabee34 | Anybody going to Wincon?

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Anybody going to Wincon?

First off, everybody congratulate me and cross your fingers! I just sent off the prospectus to my director, and she will surely say that it is the most beautifully composed document to ever cross her inbox and that I need not revise a single word.

Secondly, in a note of sadness, Writercon has announced its demise. :( They recommended that people go to Wincon instead. Is anyone planning on going? It's in New Orleans this October.

I have to admit I was highly put off by the con's no boys allowed policy. WTF, con? One of the highlights of Writercon for me was meeting and hanging out with

alixtii, who is cool beans, as well as the handful of other dudes who were attended the two years I went. And also the idea that I could get in trouble with the con for *gasp* talking to my husband in the lobby or daring to speak with him in our hotel room is kinda ~~crazycakes~~ bizarre to me.

However, I enjoyed Writercon so much, and I'd really like to fill that void in some way. Thoughts?

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Congratulations!

*beams*

I AM MAKING PROGRESS!

I am so ready to be fucking done with this bullshit that I cannot even say.

But steps! Steps are being had.

Woooooo congrats on the prospectus!

I have no opinion about Wincon except to say that yeah, that policy does sound prohibitively strict.

You should come chat with me if you can! Tomorrow I'm back to the land of dial up for three days, because I have to help my mother look after the niecelet.

(And I have some great niecelet stories for you)

To chat!

Wait. There's a con that is 'no boys allowed'? Um. WHY?

From the FAQ (http://omgwincon.com/faq):

Can I bring my husband/boything?

Yes, but we request that they remain out of the official Con spaces—the panels, parties, Con suite, and Winprom. This is for the benefit of the Con attendees who expect a certain environment from Wincon; that environment is mostly a female and queer safe space. If you’re a straight boy (attached to one of our peeps or on your own) who REALLY REALLY REALLY wants to come to the con, buy a ticket, and actually participate, we aren’t saying no…yet. We’re saying email us before you buy your ticket. We want to know who you are and what your reason for coming and participating is. As a private event, we maintain the right to refuse service or admittance to anyone. Please respect that.

Now, as far as why this is a rule, I have some suspicions.

1. Cons have traditionally been in the past a boy thing, and some fans are really protective of and identify strongly with the idea of fandom as a primarily female space. (Although that gives me hives as well._)

2. In the past, dudes have come to cons for the ogle the ladies factor. There has been skeeviness had. There has been misbehavior and inappropriateness issues.

I do understand that there are merits to this second concern; however, the policy really rubs me the wrong way. Ladies frequently misbehave at these cons as well. It's not as if men are the only ones who ever get drunk at cons and act the fool or actively trawl the dance floor for a fuck buddy.

Also, men are part of our fandom. They are. They write stories and they read them and they make icons and they write meta and they draw fanart and making them prove some sort of fannish street cred for entrance to this con is totally, totally irksome.

See. yeah. At the two cons I've been to (both were in Orlando, and both were attended by mostly women) the misbehavers were exclusively women. The dudes were actually well behaved, and generally kept to themselves.

Hmm. The no boys allowed rule is buzzing me as 'lunatic fringe.' makes me glad I'm relatively 'fandom adjacent.'

I don't think I'd say that. I think the rule reflects the mods being put between a rock and a hard place and not really knowing quite what to do to prevent that bad behavior from happening again. I don't remember exactly what happened at the last con but I remember it was all over fandom and hugely controversial and a lot more egregious than just getting sloppy drunk. I think sexual coercion was involved (but don't take that for gospel).

But, yes. My experience at cons has been similar to yours.

You wouldn't say it's 'lunatic fringe'? Hmm. It just struck that chord with me - not because the mods are, but because there has been behavior which makes the new rule...while I don't want to say necessary (because really?), I can see how it would seem a valid option.

Maybe to be clearer about how it's coming off to me: as a REACTION to the lunatic fringe. And by that I don't mean the people who want a safe space, but the idiots who necessitated CREATING RULES to ENSURE a safe space. I hope that makes my meaning clearer.

Ah. Okay. I think I misread what you were saying. I understand now and that makes sense. :)

(And if you don't mind, I want to keep this post free of words that relate to mental illness.

hermionesviolin called me out on my own use of those words downthread, and as she is participating in this post, I want to keep this a welcoming space for her. *hugs*)

I, um. Yes. I think we have proven that women can misbehave as much as men (and the stories I've heard of romance novel cons seems to make that hold very, very true also).

I get the "OMG, do not want to deal" reaction, as someone who has been to cons with men and women, and been harassed by men, but not by women, at those cons. I do. But I don't know how it's possible to just declare "men not allowed" and have it go well.

Plus, what if a gay man wants to show up with his husband/boything (and, urgh, "boything?") to attend the con? It's a queer safe space, so...

Anyway. I kind of feel like you should declare a con "no menz allowed," but that they should declare it a safe space and set up public policies to deal with violations of the safe space. Which might be more work, but would make me feel better, because then I wouldn't have to worry about anyone violating the safe space for any reason.

Wow, am I glad it's not my con.

Did you mean "shouldn't declare a con 'no menz..."? If so, I completely agree with you.

executrix just made a post (http://executrix.livejournal.com/612370.html) saying pretty much exactly the same thing.

I don't envy the mods at all. It's hard work making sure everyone is accommodated and has run and can do so safely. I don't at all want to downplay that.

That is what I'd meant to say! *sheepish* Whoops.

I knew what you meant. :)

I got my writerly fix at Ad Astra in Toronto this year. It's established and isn't going anywhere, has some of the best writer specific programming I've seen, and I got Mercedes Lacky to sign my books. :D

That sounds fun. Is it always in Toronto?

It is, which is good for me. Less so for you. Unless of course you've always wanted to see Toronto in the spring...

I've heard really good things about Toronto from people who have visited. :)

Now I'm getting really excited about next year :)

I have at least one friend who has gone to WinCon and loved it. I hadn't realized until the WriterCon announcement that WinCon had gone multi-fannish. Given how much I am doing ALL the things this year, I don't think I'm going to go to WinCon -- opting to have a prayer of having a restful 3-day weekend that weekend instead. I hadn't realized WinCon had a "no boys allowed" policy :/

Edit: Oops, WinCon is the weekend AFTER Columbus Day weekend. But my interest in not doing ALL the things still stands...

Edited 2011-04-11 01:59 (UTC)

See my reply upthread to altyronsmaker re: boys only.

I don't want you to do all the things. :) But I do want to see you. LOL

Wooty woot with an extra side of woot on your prospectus!

Also, I posted my VampDi zombie story!

*beams*

Yay for us both.

*hugs*

I didn't know about the No Boys Allowed policy. It makes me want to attend in drag. And more generally uncomfortable with attending than I already was, since I'm skeptical of the extent to which it's really multifannish in a way where I'll feel like part of the crowd. Even if that weren't the case, it seems like all my fannish travel is geared toward attending figure skating competitions, and October is a terrible time of year for me to go on vacation.

In conclusion, I am sad there is no more Writercon, and congrats on the prospectus!

Thank you!

See my comment to altyronsmaker upthread re: the boys only policy.

I figure the multifannishness part will be real and that likely the con will "feel" much like Writercon did.

However, this policy is insane, and I just don't get it, and it makes me not want to go except that I really crave hanging out with fannish people and cons are the only way to do that on a large scale.

Yeah, but there's multifannish and there's "mostly I write RPF about sports." You're right that I'd probably be fine on that front, though. The real deciding factor is that I'll be dealing with job market stuff and won't be able to do anything fun in October.

Considering what a tipsy flirt/slut I was at all three Writercons, I sort of want to be banned if the goal is to keep the pervs out.

Technically, I am in drag right now, albeit very lazy drag.

Job market yay!!!!!! :)

Have you started applying places yet?

Heh, application frenzy season is in the fall/winter, in the lead-up to MLA. I do not have enough of a dissertation yet to apply for off-season positions or to be on the market this year. But I will. Oh how I will.

And I will be your biggest cheerleader, no doubt about that.

I forgot to say that you are most welcome to dress in drag at any time. Cause yum. :)

Congratulations! :)

As for the demise of Writercon -- oh, that's so sad; I had probably more fun the year I went than I've ever had at a convention before. It was wonderfully run and just ... wonderful. But I can understand why they wouldn't want to take on a project of that magnitude again.

The "no boys" policy, though ... that isn't for me. I respect that some fans feel most comfortable in female-only spaces and wouldn't argue with someone setting up an event that way, for people who are interested. But I won't be attending a con like that, because that's not what I want my fannish experience to be.

I went two of the three years and really had a blast. I am terribly sad that it's gone now.

I am just so irritated because this con sounded awesome awesome awesome and driving distance and a town I know and yay and then I read that policy and it's so irritating that I don't know what to do with it. I miss hanging out with droves of fans and a con is the only way to do that and yet these rules are so stupid. *tears out hair*

Yeah.

I saw the discussion at cathexys's DW about sexual harassment at past Wincons, and ... I'm so on the fence about this, because, as far as my own personal ethics and the fannish experience I want to have, I come down so hard on your side! I am an "include everybody" person and I don't really enjoy being in spaces that are deliberately geared to keeping certain people out. But, at the same time, it isn't my con, and I do recognize that some women only feel safe in all-women spaces and need to police them in order to have that safety and comfort. *flails*

You pretty much just said exactly how I feel about the whole thing. LOL

P.S. Can we not refer to the WinCon policy as "crazy" and "insane"? As someone with mentally ill loved ones, I'm feeling REALLY uncomfortable... Thanks.

Of course. I can't edit the comment that has been replied to already.

No prob -- I was mostly asking for moving forward...

*nods*

As someone who has struggled with mental illness myself (and have family members who also struggle), for some reason these are not words that trigger me or bother me. But it is useful for me to be reminded that I am not the gold standard for everyone else's feelings.

Your influence has gotten me to eliminate "lame" from my vocabulary pretty much entirely, and I guess this is the next hurdle.

In coming back to this post to answer more comments, the comment I made below seems kinda snarky and not at all in the sincere spirit in which I meant it. I am home sick today and be-numbed on medicine and clearly not articulating myself well.

'Sokay. It seemed like a bit of an abrupt response, but I felt fairly confident that you hadn't meant it mean-spiritedly. Thanks for the clarification, though. And I hope you feel better soon -- *passes you a cuppa and a cuddly blanket*

Thank you.

*snuggles*

You have been really instrumental in helping me to examine my language which I very much appreciate. And I do need to be reminded that just because something doesn't bother me doesn't mean it won't hurt others. And I don't want to hurt my friends. *hugs* Or you know, anybody for the most part. Ex-boyfriends are fair game. LOL

Congratulations! I am sure you will outshine all other prospectus-givers *evar*.

:)

I certainly hope so.

*glitters*

Thanks, bb!

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