I love going to the movies!

[lunabee34]

So here's what I thought was going to happen in this movie:

1. Many characters will die, but
2. be resurrected in some way through a reset of some sort (probably in the following movie).
3. Steve will die to usher in either Cap!Bucky or Cap!Sam (with my heart's desire being Cap!Sam).
4. Pacing issues galore.
5. The cast will be too large for any real emotional connection to characters or character growth.

I am relieved to say that I was very pleasantly surprised by how the movie differed from my expectations. True, many characters died, but I am convinced that most of them will be restored in the following movie. The franchise is not going to end with half the universe staying dead.

Of course, the guessing game becomes which characters will be resurrected. I know there's some debate over whether only the people who died from Thanos snapping his fingers will be resurrected; I personally think that whatever time magic happens is going to go back far enough to save the Asgardian ship. Otherwise, Thor's the last Asgardian standing; I don't think he rescued his people just for all of them to die. So, I think Loki, Heimdall, Gamora, and Vision will be resurrected as well.

I think everyone's going to come back only for the gut-punch of the real, permanent death(s) to happen in the next movie. I think Tony's going to die in a blaze of sacrificial glory (possibly alongside Steve, ushering in the next Cap), and I think his death has been telegraphed from the beginning of the franchise. I think all the Avengers team movies have orbited around Tony and Steve; we get tons of plot and development about other characters, but I think the movies consistently focus on Tony and Steve as the protagonists. From the first Avengers movie, Tony is deeply scarred by the Chitauri invasion; he's obsessed with the idea of making the world safer and scared of fucking shit up worse with his powers while trying to do so. He's horrified enough by the collateral damage of his actions to sign the Accords but deeply worried that the world needs to give superheroes free rein if it's going to survive hence reinstalling the arc reactor. I think he's going to sacrifice himself in some way to ultimately end Thanos (maybe while holding hands with Steve ala Spike and Angel).

I had a hard time getting too worked up about the deaths in the movie because I'm convinced that most of them will be resurrected, but Peter's death was gutting. His fear and how much he wanted Tony to fix everything for him and that hug and then he disappears and Tony is devastated--I am tearing up now typing this. Man, that was an absolutely perfect scene. Poor Emma had a conniption in the theater during that scene, bless her.

I know it's not set in stone that all the characters will be resurrected, but I feel confident that most of them will be; that Strange is setting in motion the one plan necessary to defeat Thanos is pretty explicit in the movie. It's also clear that the plan needs Tony alive, or Strange wouldn't have bargained for his life.

I don't think the movie has pacing issues at all. Nothing moves too quickly; no parts seem bogged down or idling. I'm glad they broke the cast of characters into small groups to interact with each other rather than having one large group; that works way better than I had imagined. I feel like everyone gets to shine for at least a moment.

I really love Thor interacting with the Guardians. Their hero worship is really funny, and I like the way he connects with Groot and Rocket (Groot making the axe handle! sweet rabbit!). I love Tony and Strange snarking at each other; I will gladly read about a thousand fics of that. I adore Bucky and Steve's reunion and how chill Bucky seems; he seems happy and healed and okay now.

I very much like Wanda and Vision's relationship. We didn't get to spend too much time with them, but I feel like I got a good sense of how much they care about each other; my heart breaks for Wanda when she has to kill Vision. That was the other really emotional death scene for me.

I think Thanos is an excellent villain. He's absolutely, perfectly terrifying. I've seen some people saying the movie tries to make him sympathetic, but I completely disagree. I think the whole point is that he isn't and can't be sympathetic. He's like the Operative in Firefly; he's a true believer in his own bullshit. He heinously abuses even the people he thinks he loves. He's so morally bankrupt that he can't value the lives of his loved ones over his mission (unlike the Avengers who try to save each other). He's implacable and immovable. None of them can beat him. None of them have come up against an enemy that they can't beat, at least collectively if not on their own. Thanos is all of their nightmares come true; he's Tony's literal nightmare. Beating him will be like nothing they've ever done before.

Emma is convinced that Hulk is refusing to come out because he's never been beaten before and he's afraid. I'm not sure what I think, but that's a plausible explanation.

One more miscellaneous observation: I loved the way that the Guardians plus Earth contingency tag-team Thanos, all attacking at once to keep him off his guard rather than politely waiting their turns.

I can't believe we have to wait forever to see how this ends!

Comments

[the_rck]

Cordelia and Scott saw the movie this afternoon. Cordelia says she cried twice, once for Groot and once for Peter Parker.

She’s been rewatching Parks & Rec over and over, so she and Scott both expected to keep thinking of Chris Pratt’s character from that show. They say that they actually didn’t.

[lunabee34]

I have never seen that show, but it's on the list. All my friends say really good things about it.

[zulu]

Yay, glad it was a gooder!

[lunabee34]

It was! It was a very gooder!

[slightweasel]

I think everyone's going to be resurrected for one simple reason: Vision died before the snap, and Thanos brought him back in order to kill him again. So clearly reversing all the deaths is possible, presuming use of the time stone is the method used to bring everybody back.

I was super, super pleased with how well they juggled all the characters and different plotlines - the best handling of a large cast I've seen in a big franchise recently. And I agree that the pacing was really good. I came out of the movie really feeling like this is something all the individual movies have been setting up since day one, and it's basically awesome. :D

[lunabee34]

Yep, yep, yep to your first paragraph. Complete agreement.

I am just astonished that the pacing was so tight.

Now I have to watch it again and pick up all the little lines of dialogue I missed.

[chelseagirl]

I shared your fondness for the Vision/Wanda relationship.

I think everyone comes back but Tony and Steve definitely die and possibly Thor (if he can die). I think Loki and Heimdall will stay dead because those actors are too big for supporting roles, now.

I just typed up my thoughts at great length in a response to selenak and then reposted it in my journal, so I will stop myself from going on further.

[lunabee34]

Do you really think Thor will die? IDK, if he and Loki both die, is Asgard done for?

I saw your post and agree with you for the most part.

At least we only have a year to wait!

[the_emu]

Yes! I was so incredibly impressed at how well it held together with that many characters. There were times when I was watching and thought it was too much, but the ending all made it so incredibly worth it. I was sitting there thinking, 'If they end it here it will be the gutsiest ending ever, but no way would they do that,' and then the credits started, and I was all, 'Whoaaaaaa'.

An, lordy, how I loved that Toby's final scene looked so much like the place in his vision. Gyaaah.

But while of course I would have preferred more of some characters (Cap, especially when he looks that hot) and relationships, I was awed by how many they handled without feeling rushed.

I forgot who Thanos was played by, and spent the whole movie trying to remember who that delicious voice belonged to. Lovely Josh Brolin, of course. I did find him sympathetic. Not because he was in any way right, but because he clearly did feel things. His sadness for Gamora was so real. When he killed her, I didn't buy that you can throw someone off a cliff to win a thing and claim that you truly love them, but the grief afterwards got me there. I felt for him far more than I ever felt for Loki.

I absolutely could not get over how much the Wakandan battle looked like the Gungan battle from TPM. It was uncanny and hilarious.

[spikedluv]

I would have preferred more of some characters (Cap, especially when he looks that hot)

Same!! *g* Gosh, he looked AMAZING!

[lunabee34]

I usually don't dig beards, but I was digging it.

[lunabee34]

Yeah, Titan does look a lot like the vision/dream Tony has of everything ending. :(

I kept trying and failing to recognize Josh Brolin's voice as well. For some reason, I thought it was John Goodman. LOL

Cap really was looking mighty fine. Wow.

[spikedluv]

*flails* Such a great movie! I agree that they handled the entire cast of characters so well!

I also wasn't that upset by all the deaths for the same reason you list. I hope they use the time stone so that everyone can come back. But as much as I expected Steve to die in this movie, I'm hating the idea that he'll die in the next, right after bringing Bucky back. So much suckage!

Peter dying in Tony's arms was holy crap heartbreaking! As was Wanda having to kill Vision. And Bucky's, "Steve," just before he disappeared.

Loved Wanda and Vision!

I've seen that theory about the Hulk elsewhere and I think it's kind of funny! Maybe he got so used to winning on the junk planet (I can't remember the name) that he can't imagine losing anymore?

[lunabee34]

Poor Bucky. Resurrected just to take his turn to watch Steve die. That really would suck. :(

I wonder if the Hulk is just done with fighting period because he had to fight so long in the arena; maybe he's worried about getting stuck as default mode again. IDK

[lyr]

I think Emma's right about why the Hulk wouldn't come out. Also, I think you might be right about Tony's ultimate fate, although I suspect Steve will just feel too traumatized and weary after all this, and will give up the mantle to Sam voluntarily. I had a suspicion going in, influenced by knowing comics cannon, that resurrections and the reboot of the Marvelverse to give us the next generation of heroes, would come as it does in comics by Wanda losing her shit after Vision's death. She lashes out with her powers and actually re-writes reality and creates an alternate universe; she's crazy powerful like that. So I was surprised when the finger-snapping got her, too. I guess we're going a different way. Now I kind of think it will be Thanos himself who gets talked into undoing what he's done.

[lunabee34]

Oh that's interesting. I hadn't considered that Thanos might reverse it himself.

I also would like Steve to pass it along himself rather than dying to do so, but I really do think Tony's buying the farm.

I'll be interested to see if Emma is right; it makes sense as a motivation.

[lyr]

Probably yes, but that will make me so sad; Tony is my avatar POV character in the Marvelverse, so I feel especially invested in his fate.

[lunabee34]

*nods*

Much like Rodney McKay (although for different reasons), Tony is a beloved character I don't think I could actually spend time with in real life. But, boy, do I feel for him and root for him on the screen.

[tamoline]

I enjoyed it a lot as well. I'm not sure the Asgardian deaths will be undone, though - Thor mentioned later in the movie that Thanos killed half his people (as is his general wont) so there are still half left alive. (Well, quarter now, I guess.)

I do have to admit that I cordially despised the Vision/Wanda relationship - though I was heavily prejudiced against it by the last Avengers movie, where Vision imprisoned Wanda, tried to gaslight her about that fact, then used violence against her when that failed. And never even apologised about that to her onscreen - just gave kind of a 'I told you so' comment when they met at the airport. He even let her be imprisoned once again, and be drugged to boot when at that point he could easily have gotten her out of there when everyone else was distracted.

Ugh. *Ugh.*

To be fair, he did seem to have the idea in this movie that he couldn't just do whatever he wanted in their relationship, and that she could and should actually make her own decisions, but... but given the absolutely appalling way he treated her last movie it was going to take more than what this movie could afford to show to sell me on their relationship. So it just kind of irritated me when it was onscreen. Which was unfortunate, really.

(And it's not like Marvel movies can't sell me on romantic relationships - they did a bang up job in Black Panther with T'Challa and Nakia - but possibly the Russo brothers can't, given the dull thud with which Steve and Sharon landed for me in Civil War. Which is even more of a pity since I really liked the platonic chemistry between Steve and Natasha in Winter Soldier.)

[lunabee34]

I missed that he'd only killed half of them. But since more than half of them died in Hela's attack, I'd think killing any of them at all doesn't conform to his "principles." He's so clearly irrational and unhinged while thinking he's the only sane one.

Yeah, the Sharon/Steve went over with a thud. I didn't hate it on principle, but I didn't like the way it was executed.

I agree that Natasha and Steve have tons of chemistry. Tons.