I am curious about this here BNF thingy

[lunabee34]

Okay, so I know that there's a cyle to posting about everything in fandom and that this question has probably already been asked ad nauseum, but based on some comments to my post HERE, I'm curious about your definitions of a BNF.

In my estimation, BNF-itude is based on three factors: size of flist, number of people apparently reading fic (or watching vids or gakking icons or responding to meta or using recs) based on recs and comments, and propensity of people to engage in conversation no matter the topic (like washing dishes or kitty cat antics). I think several qualities are related to the BNF-ness: being first (in a fandom, in a trope, in a pairing), being around a long ass time, being witty, writing well, being online a lot so that commentary on new developments is instantaneous-ish.

As I said in my previous post: I mean, I know that the value of BNF changes given whichever circle you are in so that the same people are never universally recognized as BNF by all subsets of fandom. It's a thing that is often very difficult to quantifiably measure. But I do think it exists and I think it depends on perspective. For instance, I have a very different picture of who the BNFs are than I did as newbie and that picture was based on wholly different criteria. Nonetheless, at each stage of my fannishness, I've been able to identify a group of fans that have more clout and influence [and recognition] than I do.

So here's my question to you: Who do you think is a BNF and why?

[Anonymous posting always enabled and IP addresses never logged. It's my settings.]

Comments

[executrix.livejournal.com]

For once, no pun intended, but I think of BNF-hood as involving charisma, in the sociological sense, as evidenced by the ability to attract Cordettes and then haul them around from fandom to fandom.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Yes! That sense of having a following that's almost independent of the fandom itself.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

People can be BNFs for things other than fic, of course. thefourthvine is a BNF based on her recs. When I was in Digimon fandom, I was a BNF for the website and messageboard I ran.

For fic BNFs, though, I tend to think mainly in terms of comment counts, though I'm sure they all do have large foflists as well. In SGA (at least the John/Rodney part), I would say someone who consistently gets a couple pages worth or more of comments on their fics is a BNF.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Absolutely! Other people are BNFs based on their icon making skills or vid making skills. It isn't just fic. I probably should amend the post to reflect that all kinds of fannish activity and facility therein do a BNF make. :)

Comment counts play a lot into my conception of a BNF as well. For me, it's not just the three pages of comments a person gets on fic but the three pages of comments they get on a post like, "Ronon's dreads: Military advantage or unfortunate sartorial choice? Talk amongst yourselves." It's that willingness of their audience to talk about them with anything and everything. Does that make sense?

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

Yeah, definitely. I just don't tend to see that part unless I have them friended, whereas I'm more likely to see the comment counts on fics.

[ana-grrl.livejournal.com]

I think there's a difference between people who actively strive to become BNFs, and people who become very well known because of the quality of their writing skills (which I often think is at least partially initiated by the popularity of their pairing(s) of choice. I think that people who write more obscure pairings/gen fic may do so in a fantastic and prolific way, but that isn't necessarily enough to begin a BNF process).

Sometimes, of course, the two types meet!

I also think that people who are considered BNFs in the slash parts of fandom don't necessarily intersect with the BNFs in the gen part of fandom, or the con aspects of fandom, or LJ-based fandom, or message-board based fandom. I mean, they might, but they might not.

Do I think they exist? Sure, there are people I could name in some of the larger fandoms (esp. SGA) who I think are considered BNFs due their writing (length/how prolific/pairings). But there are a lot of fandoms I have no idea about - for BSG, I would be hard pressed to name a big fan. Actually, there's no way I could, but I'm not very involved in that fandom. Firefly...I don't know about Firefly either (i.e. who is considered a BNF by the majority of at least one sector of the fandom). But I also believe Firefly has as very diverse fandom with many subsections, so it's very likely there are generally recongnized BNFs in there somewhere.

I think I have more to say on this BNF thing, but I have to go to work! Later, perhaps.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Hmmmmmmm. Don't we all strive to be BNFs? Sort of, anyway. I mean, I would love to expand my readership around the rallying cry of Bates/Kavanagh 4evah!!!! or Major Lorne/EVERYBODY 24/7. :) And I wish I had the kind of clout to get people involved in sga_talk or start a meme. *retires RIP Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick fic fest idea*

I do think that there are a handful of BNFs that seem to be visible in many subsets of fandom, but I think for the most part you are right that the BNF is this corner is that corner's, "Who?"

Say more. More. Phil demands it.

[ana-grrl.livejournal.com]

Don't we all strive to be BNFs? Sort of, anyway.

I don't know, it seems like BNF-dom is a lot of work. I mean, I could be wrong (I know, I know, Phil is shocked right now), but argh, living up to all those expectations! *g*

I agree that many people would like to be BNFs, but I also think that there is a subset of people who actively set out to become BNFs - they don't become BNFs because they love writing or whatnot and are really good at it - they strive to become one because they love the attention. These are the people we tend to hear about during fandom 'scandals', I think.

Or maybe I'm cynical (shocking!).

Major Lorne/EVERYBODY 24/7

Oh, I am so there!

Say more. More. Phil demands it.

But I'm tired and my brain is full of sludge!

but I think for the most part you are right that the BNF is this corner is that corner's, "Who?"

My first encounter with this (I think) was a BNF post about Firefly some time back. I found it interesting that I'd heard of almost no-one on the list (because I'd been actively involved in the fandom since 2002). It was pretty fascinating! Then again, I think Firefly is a fairly small fandom and I remember that some people felt that there were no BNFs at all.

[executrix.livejournal.com]

I was going to cite Firefly as an example of a pond too small to have big fish, even if some are bigger than other fish, if you see what I mean. I'm not sure if I'd analyze Drake's Venture fandom (which has about eight people in it) as having NO BNFs or everybody who joins automatically becomes a BNF?

[ana-grrl.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if I'd analyze Drake's Venture fandom (which has about eight people in it) as having NO BNFs or everybody who joins automatically becomes a BNF?

So, kind of like Real Genius fandom then? *g*

Firefly as an example of a pond too small to have big fish

Although sometimes I get these hints that Firefly fandom is much larger than I think it is. I think there are lots of subsets of the fandom, which together make it large, but which might operation separately.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Yeah.

Firefly is weird. It seems very disjointed and not cohesive since the BDM. Of course, that impression might be fueled by the fact that I am no longer actively following the fandom but only reading what ever is posted to my very small flist.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

(Wow, this is a really striking icon.)

And yes, your point is also good. & ;-)

[ana-grrl.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I love this icon. It's by syliasyliasylia.

link correction

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

The coding for "my post HERE" is borked (viewing Page Source, you typed "a hrer" instead of "a href").

For any curious readers, the URL is:
http://lunabee34.livejournal.com/212286.html

***

(Sorry I have not been much with the substantive commenting.)

Re: link correction

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

See? See world how she illustrates the point I made in that very post whose link I botched?

Elizabeth = guru of awesome!!@

[tabaqui]

I have *no clue*. I have no help or insight into this. The BNF thing confuses me, 'cause half the time it's people i never heard of, and half the time it's people who seem to be amazingly obnoxious, so i just don't *know*.

Heh. How lame is that?

I await comments on this post with interest, though.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Heeeeeeeeee.

And see, I consider you a BNF because you are so widely known and your fic is consistently recced and offered as being the best and representative of certain genres (Spander or Wincest, in particular).

[tabaqui]

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAhhahahahahaha!

I have no clue if that's so. I think it's insanely hilarious if it is.

Flattering as hell, but hilarious.
*smooches you*

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

*smooches back*

I can remember when I first started reading in Spander and covertly looking at all these archives and going through people's rec lists on websites and you were always mentioned. And then I got on lj and OMG, YOU WERE TALKING TO ME!!!!!!!!! I mean, it feels so ridiculous to me now, *sheepish*, but it was this huge deal that this great writer who was so widely mentioned wanted to talk to me.

:)

[tabaqui]

Heeeee!
Of coz i was talking to you, bay-bee!
*twirls you around and around*

And see, that reaction kinda makes me grin, too, 'cause wth? I'm just...you know...me. Who writes.

But oh, now, see, the shine is gone, i'm all dull and old, you don't *care* that you're talking to me!!
*tragic!flail*

:)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

But oh, now, see, the shine is gone, i'm all dull and old, you don't *care* that you're talking to me!!
*tragic!flail*

*snerk*

*is so blase about it all now*

LOL

*huggles you to death*

[havocthecat]

Hrm. I need to think about this for a while before I say anything. *bookmarks for later*

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Yay! I look forward to your comments.

[ninasis.livejournal.com]

There are people, like astolat or cesperanza, who can literally jumpstart fandoms just by writing a story. Authors like that are, without a doubt, BNFs. I'm not sure what you would call them, because there are several people of their caliber who can jump into ANY fandom, write one or two stories, and have a HUGE following just based on their fannish reputation. People who have never heard of a show, or listened to a band, or what have you will flock to a fandom just because a certain writer is involved.

There are people who are active in other ways, like thefourthvine or norah for their recs or meta. People who run fic exchanges/fests or mod multiple communities. All of those things are the real backbone of a fandom's infrastructure, and when done well can make a fandom an awesome place to be. Those people inevitably become BNFs just because their names are all over the place.

And then there are fandom-specific BNFs who are all over the rec-lists and always included in the "must read" lists for that specific fandom.

The term BNF has a lot of negativity associated with it, but I don't know what else can be used to describe people who are literally "big name fans."

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I don't see it as a negative term myself, but I know what you mean. People are constantly denying that they're BNFs or protesteth-ing too much when they are identified as such or reacting as if the label is a perjorative one. And I can see why. I mean, Being Full of Oneself is rarely good PR. Except when it is. LOL In my experience, almost all the people I would call BNFs appear to be very kind, interesting people who nurture fandom rather than doing anything negative.