Successful Co-Writing: the Who with the What Now?

[lunabee34]

I've been wondering for some time now how those of you who co-author fics negotiate doing so. It seems to me that writing with another person is potentially an incredibly rewarding experience but also one that can be fraught with tension. The only time I attempted to co-write a fic was roughly two years ago, and while the experience was very positive and a lot of fun, the fic was ultimately abandoned when we both had different visions for the project.

In the interest of full disclosure, my musing is prompted by an unfinished fic currently sitting on my hard drive. I'd love for someone to write it with me, but I'm unsure how the actual writing would proceed. Does one person do most of the actual writing, while the second person contributes heavily in the outlining, plotting, and revision/expansion stages (which seems the most workable model to me)? Do both people write equally, maybe taking turns every page or so (which seems much more difficult to me as even two very good writers will differ in terms of style)?

If you have written with another person and feel that the experience was a positive one, please share with me your tips on co-writing. And I'm maybe kinda putting out feelers to the hard-core flisters here about collaborating with me on something. Maybe. LOL

Comments

[executrix.livejournal.com]

There are a lot of ways people co-write (and Wayne Koestenbaum, who always writes boring books about interesting subjects, wrote a book about the erotics of collaboration between male writers that is obviously on point here). I think the most practical way to work would be to have a "story editor" and a "scriptwriter." (At least this is what I fantasize, because if I were to collaborate it would be with someone who can actually make up plots.)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I think the most practical way to work would be to have a "story editor" and a "scriptwriter."

*nods*

That makes sense to me as well.

I'm seeing from the comments that while everyone's method is different, they are all variations on the same theme of give and take.

[thelastgoodname.livejournal.com]

I think it works however you want it to work, and however, you and your co-writer work best together. I've never written something with someone else, but I've known co-writers where one does the outlining and ideas, and the other does the actual writing, and I've known co-writers where one writes and then the other edits and adds some more and then the first person edits again and writes some more, it just keeps growing and growing, and I've known people who mostly just treat it like a round-robin. I imagine there are as many ways of co-writing as there are of writing.

So what's the project? Because I've always wanted to try writing something with someone, just to try it. (This is not the best reason to write with someone, I admit.)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

The project is basically this. I made a post a couple entries back about how well I think the worlds of SGA and SPN could be married. Then I wrote a couple pages of Rodney in a parking garage getting attacked by a vampire and being saved by Sam and Dean. I think it's a great opening, but I've got nothing else. I have no clue what will happen in the story; I have no idea if it should be gen or if there should be a pairing or multiple pairings; I don't know if all the action should stay earthside or if the Winchesters need to go to Atlantis. I've just got no clue other than the fact that I want these two worlds to interact with each other.

[thelastgoodname.livejournal.com]

Actually, for a crossover, I wonder how well it would work to have each person write something from the POV of each universe/main character? That might be really interesting as a collective work, sort of pushing even further what someone else described as working for Xander/Spike. Of course, in that case, what I'm imagining has a bit less seamlessness (is a bit more seamy?), so that you can get some of the flavor of each universe in the writing.

But I do think constant communication is the only way to do it. You have to be writing the same story.

(I am not the person to do this project with, as I don't do SPN. But good luck!)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I figured this would not be your bag. :) But if you do ever come up with an idea for collaborating, let me know. I'd like to give this a go as well, and I think you and I would work well together.

That alternating universe POV is a really interesting idea. This is getting a little bit exciting. I have the feeling that even if I don't end up writing this fic with someone, my creativity is being sparked to the point that I can work on it myself.

[tabaqui]

Well, as you know, Reremouse and i have collaborated a lot. What works for us is...

First, we just talk about our story idea. See where our ideas line up and where they don't, and kind of hash it out. Decide how we want it to go. Rere is very good with actual concrete outlines, plucked out of our meandering instant message conversations. Heh.

I like to write Spike predominately, and she likes to write Xander, so we usually do the 'bulk' of our favorite character's pov ourselves, but of course can switch back and forth if necessary.

We decide on our first scene, where we it to end up and what's to be included, and then whoever has the best opening line just starts. We write until we're 'played out' or want a pov shift and then send off the written bit - usually about 100 or so, 300 words - to the other person.

We usually are talking in yahoo the whole time, checking stuff and getting ideas, and we write until....well...bedtime or whatever, heh.

That's how it works for us. Take into account that the very first time took a little time to feel each other out, so to speak, and learn weaknesses and strengths and how 'touchy' the other is, which is not very at all, yay! Reremouse rocks to write with, but i think i got mega-lucky on that score.

You just have to be able to let go of your own dearly-head plot or character ideas if it's not working for the story, and be flexible about stuff. Writing with someone who's uber touchy about things or can't take hints or criticism would suck, so....

Good luck!

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, this is really interesting.

It seems that the key for you guys is really being in constant communication the whole time. It sounds like you don't go off and write and then present the ideas to each other; you are communicating for most of the time as you're actually writing. Is that right?

[tabaqui]

Yup, exactly. We're always bouncing ideas off each other, making sure the story is going where we want it to go, that kind of thing. It really works well for us. Everything we've written has been this way, and i personally think it's a compliment when someone says they can't tell what part i wrote and what part Reremouse wrote.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I certainly think that your collaborations with her read seamlessly. There's no stylistic breaks, which I think is pretty awesome.

[trekgirl55.livejournal.com]

I was actually going to suggest something similar to what tabaqui brought to the table. I've been working in a similar fashion on a couple of different projects and it has been an extremely fun and rewarding experience.

Currently I am working with my friend Cait on a series of X-Files adventures some of which are the most cracktastically funny things I have ever written and also with a very good friend on an epic Xenafic. Like 400 plus pages epic. lol

Anyway before we start a new story or chapter we briefly discuss and outline what we want to happen. Then we work together via messenger to flesh out the idea and merge our two visions into one. There is a lot of give and take and just plain free forming, but I find that kind of stimulating when I have to think on my feet.

Also, we each have a character which we write predominately, but we keep each other honest on characterization and such.

And as tabaqui said it takes a little while at first to adjust to working with someone else and get used to their quirks and style.

Good luck with the project! I would love to see the results. :)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

It sounds like a lot of people use this model actually.

I don't know if I'll actually collaborate with anyone on this but I think I've gotten rid of my writer's block in any case.

[ana-grrl.livejournal.com]

And I'm maybe kinda putting out feelers to the hard-core flisters here about collaborating with me on something.

If it contains 1) Lorne 2) Dirty, smutty sex (as opposed to that completely unsmutty sex?), 3) Lorne + awesome skills 4) wacky offworld adventures 5) spanking, 6) in space!, I'm totally in ;)

(Okay, not with the spanking)

(probably)

ANYWAY. I've only co-written a couple of fandom things. One was a story, and I had a great time. We alternated scenes and POVs, and it was fun and challenging. We mapped out where we wanted to go first, and then had a series of back-and-forth conversations about details of scenes as we wrote them and sent drafts to each other. The other was Merc Talk, that 'magazine' that I co-wrote with ozsaur, and we basically did a brainstorm thing about articles to write, and then wrote them and edited them for each other. In both cases, I think it was important to have a mutual sense of where we wanted to go.

I've written some non-fiction things with another person, and the same thing goes. We did brainstorm about how to approach the writing, with a sense of our endpoint (although that did evolve as we were writing), and then split the writing according to our skills/preferences. And then there were many drafts sent back and forth with edits and questions and so on. It was very enjoyable!

the hard-core flisters

Well listen, you know I'm just not comfortable with that scene, OMG.

[ana-grrl.livejournal.com]

Oooh, and I completely forgot about co-writing LantisJournal (baby! I'm so sorry! You know I love you). Mostly we were just entertaining ourselves with that one, and then mklutz decided to make a webpage, and we kept writing more, and cursing LJ downtime, but also loving it at the same time. It was just off-the-cuff wacky fun!

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I thought you invented hard core flisting. LOL

I outlined the project upthread in a comment to thelastgoodname. I see no reason why this story couldn't be about Lorne. Or anybody else on Atlantis LOL which is part of the problem. I've no plot.

PS I love Merc Talk. Cracks me up.

[ana-grrl.livejournal.com]

thought you invented hard core flisting.

Stop listening to these things Phil tells you, omg!

I outlined the project upthread in a commen

Dang! An SPN crossover! I can't do that :(

I love Merc Talk. Cracks me up.

Hee! Yay! Thank you! We had a lot of fun doing it!

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Oh, phooey. Why don't all my online friends share my exact same interests!!!!!!! LOL

Actually, I think I've gotten over my writer's block for this story so yay! Or at least I've written some more. I still have no plot. LOL

[jjjean65.livejournal.com]

the fic was ultimately abandoned
and I wish it hadn't been! I would love to see both versions of the plot played out. ;)

I have co-written with someone but it was not a great experience! I haven't done it since I was actively writing in Highlander.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Oh, you're too sweet. It would have been cool either way. I wish we hadn't given up on it either. :)

I hate that you had a bad experience with collaborating.

on teamwork...

[springwoof.livejournal.com]

Leah and I have an awesome time writing together. In fact, we're trying to get in sync to write something else together. When we're going strong, it's more fun than writing alone, because you get that sense of joy from your thoughts synchronizing and feeling like you're two halves of the same brain...

Like some of the other folks on your flist mentioned, Leah & I toss around story ideas on chat first. When we start writing seriously, we at least have a bare-bones plot, know what the major conflict is going to be, and how it's going to end. Then we each go off and write individual scenes in the story, and come back and share them, discuss them on chat, and refine our outline. By the time we've got around a third of the fic written, we usually have a list of scenes that need to be in the story to cover all the plot points, and what POV each scene is going to be in. Then we divide up the unwritten scenes, depending on who has a strong opinion about how any particular scene should go.

I should mention that we've been using either Google Docs (https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=writely&passive=true&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2F&followup=http%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2F&ltmpl=homepage&nui=1) and Zoho Writer (http://writer.zoho.com/jsp/home.jsp?serviceurl=%2Findex.do) to make collaboration easier, and so that we're always on the same version of the story. (they're about the same, btw, Zoho can deal with slightly longer wordcount than GoogleDocs, but for longer fics, you're going to have to break the document into chapters, or the program will lose part of the document.) Each system also has a chat module, so you can write and chat at the same time if that works for you (I'm not coordinated enough to do that too often.), and you can give each other access so that you can edit each other's work.

You have to decide how much you trust your co-writer with your work, and agree beforehand what is okay to do and what is not. Is it okay to edit something you wrote without pointing out the changes that were made, or do you have to go through a "track changes" or similar mode and let each other approve of the other person's changes? Do you trust the other person to tell you when to chuck something and rewrite a scene? Do you trust them when they say: "here, wait, I have an idea!" and *they* rewrite your scene? It depends, obviously, and the different amounts of trust and confidence in each other don't come all at once, or without effort. You can, and probably should, take it in stages.

I think the best place to look for a collaborator would be to talk to folks who have betaed your fic before, and who you have a certain level of trust in already, and whose opinion you respect. Especially those of your betas whose writing you like, or whose writing is simpatico with yours, so that it's easier for your styles to mesh. It's good if you can find someone whose strengths and weaknesses complement your own, so that together, you're better than either of you apart...

Re: on teamwork...

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

This is such good advice. I've used Google docs before in a professional setting; I don't know why it didn't occur to me that the program is ideal for this situation as well.

And I also hadn't thought about setting boundaries with editing--whether your partner will require that you show your work or simply trust your edits.

The more that everyone comments, the more I become convinced that collaborating is an amazing experience that is A LOT of work to get right. LOL

Re: on teamwork...

[springwoof.livejournal.com]

collaborating is an amazing experience that is A LOT of work to get right.

absolutely. It's wonderful when it works right, but it's too easy to hurt someone's feelings or make them feel slighted or just dissatisfied. And that's the last thing you want, isn't it?

I'm lucky that Leah's extraordinarily thoughtful and gracious, but not everyone has that mode as their default setting, so it's probably a good idea to agree on boundaries and how you and your partner would be comfortable working together. Then you can relax and have fun writing cool fic together!

[lyr]

A couple of years back, I signed on as the third of a writing team working on an AU virtual season 2 of SGA. We planned to write the first three eps and an outline of the overall arc together and then write solo installments after that. I did the organizing, taking the overall short outline of the first ep and splitting it into 21 fully outlined scenes we could divide evenly between us. I know some other people split these things up by each taking a different character POV, or each writing a set amount of words and then handing it back.

[lyr]

And P.S.: I'd love to work on something with you, but I'm short on time right now.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

That sounds like a really cool project. Did it ever get completed?

I'd love to work on something with you as well. :) Whenever you get some time or an idea you think would be good to collaborate on, let me know. ;)