You've got your Xander pants on, husband.

[lunabee34]

executrix posted HERE about, among other things, whether people who have more than one fandom choose them for complementarity or diversity. The only two fandoms I'm heavily involved with are BtVS/Ats and FF (and only because "That Seventies Show" doesn't exist as a fic-oriented fandom *mourns the ForHyde*), and I think in a lot of ways, FF is The Buffyverse In Space.

Joss definitely reuses character templates. Wash is Xander; Simon is a lot like Wesley; River is some combination of Fred and Dru; Kaylee is Fred; Jayne is Spike; Mal is everything I think Joss wished Angel could have been and didn't quite become. [This is not to say that there's a one-to-one correlation between the characters; for example, although they are similar, Wash and Xander are different enough that they are distinct characters.]

Joss also revisits story arcs from the Buffyverse. Can nobody have a good birthday?!?

What interests me in the similarity between these two shows is the problem is created for me as a fic writer. Because many of the characters are so similar, I find that it's really tempting to, say, just dress Wash up in Xander pants and neglect the nuanced treatment his character deserves. Does anybody else have this experience or does the similarity between the shows actually help you as a fic writer?

Comments

[amejisuto.livejournal.com]

I do that sometimes. Blair reminds me of Xander and Giles mixed. Illyria is a cross between the Borg Queen and the Terminator. It's not that I compare them really, I just use one character to help me understand another, or to get their voice right.

Harley is a mix between Joker Himself and Harmony. Only smarter. She did make it through collage even if she had to sleep with the profs to do it.

Does that help you at all?

[(Anonymous)]

Ha! Love your description of Illyria.

It's not that I compare them really, I just use one character to help me understand another, or to get their voice right.

*nods*

I get that. This is gonna sound stupid, but I'm such a huge, honking FF fangirl that I just wanna get it right, ya know? LOL

[amejisuto.livejournal.com]

Hee! Thanks! Illyria's kinda fun. I just don't work with her that much since I like earlier Spander, you know?

Yep, I understand, you want to do it right so it's a homage to the character, and not making a mess out of it.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

And that was me, somehow anonymous. LOL

[executrix.livejournal.com]

Aha! You have been lured in by the Chalk and Cheese trap. Simon is actually not at all like Wesley. (And I wrote a whole story to prove it: "In Eagle," which is on Fireflyslash.) In a sense, Jayne is Cordelia's purgatory--the mere fact that he assumes her role is enough punishment to make up for a lot of her sins.

Personally I find the Unified Jossverse Theory helpful because there are several versions of each fragment of Joss' obsessions to choose from.

BTW I watched "Jaynestown" last night, and Fess Higgins always reminds me of Watcher!Wesley, and "Our Mrs. Reynolds" is definitely "The Yoko Factor" a la Firefly.

Oh, and Mal feels almost as guilty as Angel even though Angel spent most of his unlife being much, much worse than circumstances called for, whereas Mal merely wasn't any better than he had to be a lot of the time.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I'll have to read "In Eagle;" it sounds like an interesting story.

While I don't think that Simon and Wesley are the same character exactly, I think they fulfill many of the same functions. They are both the greenhorns, the ones who have been trained "by the book" [whether that's in demon hunting or the proper way to talk to a lady], they both possess wells of strength and fortitude that suprise the other characters, and they both evolve significantly over the course of the programs. [I realize that this goes against what you said in one of your recent posts about considering Ats and BtVS two different canons, but I think Wesley's character is so much richer if you look at his character development from BtVS to Ats].

Unified Jossverse Theory. Me likes it.

[executrix.livejournal.com]

The reason that the BtVS characters despise Wesley is not just that they don't like his manner (or, rather, Xander hates him because Cordelia *likes* his manner) but because in his first experience under fire, Wes completely disgraces himself. So much so that Wes/Giles, for me, moved from the "highly plausible" to "unbelievably unlikely" pairings list. So in AtS Wes doesn't just have to start over with new people--he has to start over with people who have seen him at his worst.

Simon is *always* very brave, even from the first episode. Clearly he was born with a silver foot in his mouth and is as socially awkward as someone who spent half his life in a mansion with private tutors and the other half working 100-hour weeks in a hospital and consequently has little exposure to free-range human beings.

Rogue Demon Hunter vs Rogue Smuggler Sawbones

[(Anonymous)]

You're absolutely right; that is the most significant difference between the two of them. Simon acquits himself well in difficult situations and Wesley merely acts like a prat until Graduation Day when he has the best of intentions but manages to only provide the comic relief. I also do not buy BtVS Giles/Wesley. I think the Wesley of later seasons of Ats might have made a go of it with Giles possibly.

PS I really like just *talking* about these shows with people. I came into Jossverse fandom so late, it seems that many people are done with the talking through characters and episodes, esp in BtVS. So glad you're still on the bandwagon.

Re: Rogue Demon Hunter vs Rogue Smuggler Sawbones

[executrix.livejournal.com]

Man From UNCLE fandom still has "first cousins" who have been fans since the show was broadcast...in the 1960s. My first fandom is Blakes7, which has both fans from the original broadcast (1978-81) and those who have just started watching tapes or DVDs recently. To me, the fascinating thing about the digital world is that everything is happening at the same time, in a continuous present--i.e., I'm just starting to watch DueSouth now, and if I get involved with it, I know there are umpty-ump million fics to read and a group of fans of various degrees and lengths of involvement.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

lj must not make you do the whole prove you're a human thingie anymore for anon comments as I keep commenting anonymously accidentally. Sigh.....

[executrix.livejournal.com]

Lunabee34: unless you have to keep using a million different computers, I find it really pays to stayed signed-in forever.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, the hubby also has friends with ljs he likes to comment to. And I do use the computers on campus frequently. Sigh...

[amejisuto.livejournal.com]

Hee! That's okay, the other night I was Buffy at the JLA and Harley on my own journal and totally confused.

why did you do this to me?

[thisisaholdup.livejournal.com]

...
they went carefully down through the safe places
and on down the valley after dark and out over the stones
of the shore and out into the waves and rocked there
she felt the tears burn on her face and the knowledge
that Kaleimanu had gone was rocking her and turning
into her and into knowing that she would lose Ko'olau
and that she was losing him as they rocked in the same waves there
looking up at the same night clouds over the deep valley
she knew it that night as they went up through the darkness
to the cliffs and the grave and after that night she knew it
as she had known that she was no longer afraid after that time
on the ledge when she had agreed that they should all die
together if the moment came now a fear made of hope
went out of her and a fear made of none took its place
they left the grave without offerings and went down
toward the valley and slept that night in another place

oh, my jesus lorraine- i am sobbing and this book hasn't even come to its saddest point- this is wonderful and horrible and i love it and want it to end and never end- and most of all i want never to be that sad in my entire life.

Re: why did you do this to me?

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I know; I know. I can't read that without doing the great heart-rending sobs thing. I'm so glad you like this book, so glad you GET it, ya know? It's beautiful and tragic and affirming and hopeful and hopeless all at the same fucking time.

And no, it is not to the saddest place yet.

It is one of my greatest whatevers that I got to hear Merwin himself read from The Folding Cliffs. Really special.

[virtualpersonal.livejournal.com]

I don't think I like the two shows because of similarity of characters. I think my reason is more like why you like a particular author - their author's voice, the themes that they choose to use in their stories, the way the tell their story, the chemistry of the characters they create. The author can change even the genre, but whatever it is in their voice that drew you to the first story may draw you back, over and over. And no one else can quite tell the same story that way for you. That's my take anyway :)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I like that idea. Quite alot actually.

It's sort of like being faithful to a band over the years. All her songs may not sound the same, but Tori Amos's voice stays the same and her interest in say, exploring the feminine remains throughout all her albums.