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lunabee34I just closed Deathly Hallows and replaced the dust cover (loathsome thing) and wiped my face off and poured me another glass of wine.
So, strap in, y'all. Lorraine has thoughts.
1. Movies: I watched all 6 movies in the past two weeks, and while I thoroughly enjoyed them all, my favorites are 3, 5, and 6. The third movie is shot so beautifully with all those wonderful shots of the Whomping Willow to mark the passage of time and all those wonderful Trio moments (Hermione crying with her face in Ron's neck, I believe, and Harry holding them both? Dude, it doesn't get much better than that). Five is just slick, well and truly slick. The story told in that movie is probably the tighest of any of them. And such character work--Neville and Luna and Sirius and all the escaped Death Eaters. I think my favorite is six, though. I think the story is more sprawling and that important information from the book is left out or glossed over, but on the whole I enjoy this movie the most because it is about those quiet moments between friends, those gentle character grace notes that are not revealed in the heat of battle or the height of a plot point, but rather in three friends talking or a family's love. I was a little shocked by how *much* gets left out of the movies, but I suppose I shouldn't be. They could all easily be a million years long if they were faithfully adpated. Number one shocker: that Sirius doesn't actually call Harry James during the battle at the Ministry. Well done, screenwriter. I was kinda sad that wasn't canon.
2. Books: My favorite moment in all seven books is when Fleur tells Molly Weasley that all Bill's scars mean is that her husband is brave. I don't think I can textually render what that does to my insides. My second favorite moment, of course, is Molly Weasley's duel with Bellatrix. I simply cannot wait to see that on the big screen. Speaking of which, I think it becomes apparent as you progress through the books that at some point, JKR started writing for the big screen. As interior-driven as parts of those last three books are, they translate so beautifully to film; in fact, reading the Final Battle of Hogwarts is almost like reading a screen play. I think few readers would disagree that the books gain complexity and interest as the series progresses, but on this re-read, I am shocked at how well done and how grown up and how meaningful Deathly Hollows is for me. JKR is writing about incredibly serious and potentially dark ideas from the very beginning--the nature of life and death, the soul, the consequences of evil, redemption, murder, sadism, manipulation, etc. Although much of the violence is rendered in a way meant to go over children's heads (much in the same way that the only true gasps of horror come from the adults in a viewing audience of Coraline), the implications remain. DH is the finest thing JKR wrote, and I'm still all atremble with the way she wove the plot together and made Dumbledore a tragically flawed, but still admirable, figure and gave Snape something beyond the single dimension Harry ever allotted him.
3. This brings me to fic. I've been glutting myself on fic as if it were Thin Mints and I have some confessions to make. Harry/Draco is one of those things I just cannot see in canon. Like at all. Nor is Harry/Snape. I enjoy fanfic that pairs them, but for the most part, even when it labels itself so, that fic is not canonically compliant. Draco or Snape is softened and Harry is less angry and full of hatred so that the pairing will work. But here's the thing, guys. DRACO LET DEATH EATERS INTO HOGWARTS! DRACO DIRECTLY CAUSES BILL TO BE MAULED. DRACO (although arguably through no fault of his own) HAS INTERNALIZED THE DARK BELIEFS WITH WHICH HE WAS RAISED. DRACO AND HARRY HATE EACH OTHER (to a degree I think Spike and Xander might find excessive). SAME GOES FOR SNAPE, WITH THE HATRED AND THE KILLING OF POTTER'S PARENTS OMG. Even though he did not kill them, how could Harry ever separate Draco from Fred's death or Colin's or Lupin's or Tonks's? I have read very very very few fics that actually take into account and deal with these issues in a way that satisfies me. I can immerse myself in fanon. I can take a big ole bubble bath in Spander season four basement fluff or Harry/Draco where Draco's a forgiven Auror and enjoy the hell out of the soak. But fic that unflinchingly and realistically and within the bounds of canon examines those relationships? Not so abundant. Rec me some please if you have links.
So, strap in, y'all. Lorraine has thoughts.
1. Movies: I watched all 6 movies in the past two weeks, and while I thoroughly enjoyed them all, my favorites are 3, 5, and 6. The third movie is shot so beautifully with all those wonderful shots of the Whomping Willow to mark the passage of time and all those wonderful Trio moments (Hermione crying with her face in Ron's neck, I believe, and Harry holding them both? Dude, it doesn't get much better than that). Five is just slick, well and truly slick. The story told in that movie is probably the tighest of any of them. And such character work--Neville and Luna and Sirius and all the escaped Death Eaters. I think my favorite is six, though. I think the story is more sprawling and that important information from the book is left out or glossed over, but on the whole I enjoy this movie the most because it is about those quiet moments between friends, those gentle character grace notes that are not revealed in the heat of battle or the height of a plot point, but rather in three friends talking or a family's love. I was a little shocked by how *much* gets left out of the movies, but I suppose I shouldn't be. They could all easily be a million years long if they were faithfully adpated. Number one shocker: that Sirius doesn't actually call Harry James during the battle at the Ministry. Well done, screenwriter. I was kinda sad that wasn't canon.
2. Books: My favorite moment in all seven books is when Fleur tells Molly Weasley that all Bill's scars mean is that her husband is brave. I don't think I can textually render what that does to my insides. My second favorite moment, of course, is Molly Weasley's duel with Bellatrix. I simply cannot wait to see that on the big screen. Speaking of which, I think it becomes apparent as you progress through the books that at some point, JKR started writing for the big screen. As interior-driven as parts of those last three books are, they translate so beautifully to film; in fact, reading the Final Battle of Hogwarts is almost like reading a screen play. I think few readers would disagree that the books gain complexity and interest as the series progresses, but on this re-read, I am shocked at how well done and how grown up and how meaningful Deathly Hollows is for me. JKR is writing about incredibly serious and potentially dark ideas from the very beginning--the nature of life and death, the soul, the consequences of evil, redemption, murder, sadism, manipulation, etc. Although much of the violence is rendered in a way meant to go over children's heads (much in the same way that the only true gasps of horror come from the adults in a viewing audience of Coraline), the implications remain. DH is the finest thing JKR wrote, and I'm still all atremble with the way she wove the plot together and made Dumbledore a tragically flawed, but still admirable, figure and gave Snape something beyond the single dimension Harry ever allotted him.
3. This brings me to fic. I've been glutting myself on fic as if it were Thin Mints and I have some confessions to make. Harry/Draco is one of those things I just cannot see in canon. Like at all. Nor is Harry/Snape. I enjoy fanfic that pairs them, but for the most part, even when it labels itself so, that fic is not canonically compliant. Draco or Snape is softened and Harry is less angry and full of hatred so that the pairing will work. But here's the thing, guys. DRACO LET DEATH EATERS INTO HOGWARTS! DRACO DIRECTLY CAUSES BILL TO BE MAULED. DRACO (although arguably through no fault of his own) HAS INTERNALIZED THE DARK BELIEFS WITH WHICH HE WAS RAISED. DRACO AND HARRY HATE EACH OTHER (to a degree I think Spike and Xander might find excessive). SAME GOES FOR SNAPE, WITH THE HATRED AND THE KILLING OF POTTER'S PARENTS OMG. Even though he did not kill them, how could Harry ever separate Draco from Fred's death or Colin's or Lupin's or Tonks's? I have read very very very few fics that actually take into account and deal with these issues in a way that satisfies me. I can immerse myself in fanon. I can take a big ole bubble bath in Spander season four basement fluff or Harry/Draco where Draco's a forgiven Auror and enjoy the hell out of the soak. But fic that unflinchingly and realistically and within the bounds of canon examines those relationships? Not so abundant. Rec me some please if you have links.
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no subject
Date: 2010-03-02 01:46 pm (UTC)I can't see Harry/Draco either. The only way I can see it is early in their acquaintance and whatever happens between them goes bad and fuels, in part, the mutual enmity. Getting them together after DH is beyond the pale, afaic.
The slash pairings that are credible to me are (in order of credibility):
Dumbledore/Whatshisname (because it's secondary canon)
Sirius/Remus
Harry/Ron
or, really, any of the pairs of kids who are friends. It is boarding school, after all.
I haven't read Deathly Hallows since the first time, although I did re-read them all just before it came out, to put it in context. I also love that scene with Fleur. I remember it as her saying something like "I think I'm good looking enough for both of us!" Is that right?
I do think you're right that she wrote for the screen in the later books. The books are all quite visual, but more so over time. At the same time, I'm glad she didn't pare the books down to make them fit in a two-hour movie. I've generally been really impressed with how the movies take a complex plot and adapt it to a shorter art form.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-02 07:07 pm (UTC)Depression and anxiety, I'm afraid. LOL I tend to subsume myself in fannish things when I get depressed as a coping mechanism. It's not entirely a bad coping mechanism as such go.
Dumbledore/Whatshisname (because it's secondary canon)
Sirius/Remus
Harry/Ron
*nods really frantically*
In no particular order, the slash list for me would have to be much the same:
Dumbledore/Grindelwald
Sirius/Remus, Sirius/James, etc. Honestly, I'd believe any permutation of Marauders
Fred/George
Harry/Ron
Harry/Neville
Ron/Neville
Seamus/Dean
Ginny/Luna
Snape/Lucius Malfoy
The non-canonical het pairings I love are Neville/Luna, Hermione/Viktor ETA: although, duh, V/K is pretty canonical LOL, and Luna/Harry (If I were a shipper, I'd ship Harry/Luna really freaking hard.)
Speaking of Ron/Harry, I know it's out there, but any permutation of the Trio is pretty much the most obvious pairing for me in the whole series. There oughta be, per capita, more Harry/Ron than any other male slash pairing. And yet, unless I'm looking in the wrong places, I'd venture to say that m/m slash in HP is dominated by Harry/Draco, Harry/Snape, and Sirius/Remus. I wonder why that is. I wonder if it's because so many slash writers seem to rely on conflict and tension between characters (and the rewarding journey of turning all that hatred into love) in their stories.
I remember it as her saying something like "I think I'm good looking enough for both of us!" Is that right?
Yep. That's what she says right before she says the brave comment. So, so sweet.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-02 09:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-03 12:50 am (UTC)Ron and Harry certainly have their moments of tension and problems between them.
I might have to go on a hunt for some Harry/Ron. My interest is piqued.
Are you surprised that our shipping tendencies overlap?
Date: 2010-03-03 02:32 am (UTC)(One thing to remember: don't be too surprised if a lot of Harry Potter stuff is locked down. The fandom was hit pretty hard during strikethrough, because writers got trapped between American and British ages of consent)
I like
The Harry/Ron general slash comm
A recs comm
A drabble comm
Bigbang
The Ron/Harry Christmas Exchange
Ronsexuals has quite a bit of Ron/Harry (rontoberfest had some too)
And just for variety the Dean/Seamus comm
Not in the slightest actually
Date: 2010-03-04 06:43 pm (UTC)I have encountered a lot of fic that takes a psswd to get into and I just can't be arsed to bother with all that. But it does make sense that a lot of writers locked stuff down in the aftermath of strikethrough.
(I love entrenous; she's been one of my faves since I got into fandom; I had no idea she wrote HP)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-02 08:57 pm (UTC)Some of my reading reluctance is, I think, a result of knowing what's coming in the big plot points. By the final book, I know it's war but who dies and who doesn't seems awfully contrived. It isn't realistic that all 3, or even the Ministry 5, of them would survive given their prominence in the fight. It's awfully convenient that Harry is left with no parental figure except Weasley's who of course are in favor of h/g. (in other words, was it really necessary to take Remus too?? Not to mention Hedwig).
But then, to be fair, one could say isn't it a bit unrealistic that all the hobbits are alive at the end the LOTR quest.
Film 3 is a huge fave. I love the first film, it's more fanciful and fairy tale feeling, but it also felt rather 'by rote.' The third film (director Cuaron directed one of my all time fave films - Little Princess) more truly reflects the darker nature of the enduring plot points and has a ... free-er feeling to the narrative so to speak. That director didn't seem to feel so slaved to the source authenticity. It's kind of like with having to replace Dumbledore, losing the wonderful grandfatherly Richard Harris, it allowed for a more ambiguous Headmaster and thus losing some of the fairy tale quality.
I'm a little muzzy-headed today so not sure this makes sense. I will say, in fanfic, when its a good/nurturing Dumbledore I visualize Harris in the first 2 films. Bad, betraying Dumbledore tauting 'for the greater good' is the other actor.
I've not re-watched OOtP yet but I know it was a fave on first viewing. In that book did Sirius really call Harry 'james' at the Ministry fight?? Not surprising, the guy was in "hell" for 10 years or more, of course his memory and everything else is going to be off. Not like he could sneak out and go to therapy. :-)
I found film 6 to be oddly flat, perhaps a second view will change that. I did not like the uneven emphasis on the relationships when there were more serious issues to focus on but then I'm probably pre-disposed to not liking the romance because I know what's coming. I don't buy into harry/ginny, I find it to be cliche and seriously lacking in imagination. And ... well, I'll stay off that train. Harry/Luna would have been more interesting.
You know, I never read any Ron/Harry fanfic until I found out that one of my fave writers, Shedoc, had written them. I love her Harry/Ron stories. But then that was also at the first of my dipping the toes into reading HP fanfic--I started looking at it because I wanted Sirius to live after seeing OOtP. One problem with Ron is how he acted in GOF.
Adore Sirius/Remus fic, though I fell in love with the idea of Neville/Remus after reading this one fic that had so many wonderful ideas (re plants, herbology, potions) I thought they were canon. I'm a huge fan of Neville in fanfic, particularly Neville & Harry friendship.
I agree that given canon h/d or h/ss is so unlikely as to be ludicrous. As is Spander, grin, but then that's the beauty of AU. I don't think I've run into a "fic that unflinchingly and realistically and within the bounds of canon" addresses either of those harry pairings. Well, perhaps with Snape but I don't have a great memory for those and given my lack of first-hand canon knowledge (grin) I'm less likely to recognize it.
But then in reading I can happily throw canon out the window. As in, there's a fluffy with a serious side fic on The Hex Files called "Paws of Fury" that I adore because it features pretty-kitten Harry, an interesting Draco, and a seriously pissed off house.
[sorry if this is way too muddled for comprehension; I'm having one of those days]
no subject
Date: 2010-03-06 08:15 pm (UTC)In that book did Sirius really call Harry 'james' at the Ministry fight?? Not surprising, the guy was in "hell" for 10 years or more, of course his memory and everything else is going to be off. Not like he could sneak out and go to therapy. :-)
Alas, no he did not. There is much discussion in the book of how certain characters think Sirius is mistaking Harry for James or trying to live vicariously through him, but Sirius only actually calls him James in the movie (which is brilliant).
I am so sad at realizing that some of the fics I'd recced years ago are now gone or locked down as I try to reread. There was a Ron/Draco one I remember adoring because it's so fucked up that's locked down now. *sad face*
no subject
Date: 2010-03-03 02:10 am (UTC)I was baffled - baffled I say - when I ventured into Harry Potter fandom and saw just how popular Draco and Snape were. Because I liked them, as complex rather than evilly evil villains, but... when I read the fic I didn't recognize them at all.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-03 03:21 pm (UTC)All lies and jests.
Still, a fan sees what she wants to see,
And disregards the rest.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-03 10:42 pm (UTC)*John Sheppard seal of approval*
no subject
Date: 2010-03-04 06:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-04 10:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-06 08:15 pm (UTC)