hiding the tears in my eyes, 'cause boys don't cry

[lunabee34]

As I'm certain you are all well aware at this point, I have been using Harry Potter fic to alternately procrastinate and recover from reading for my comps.

I read this story yesterday in which Ron Weasley cries. A lot. Like at least twice every chapter of the story. AND I LIKED IT! *wails* The story, the crying, all of it. I even cried a little myself.



So here's the thing: normally when I encounter this sort of weepy, OOC behavior in fic I back button faster than Dean's single emo tear tracks down his left cheek. Because while it's true that many of the male characters in the shows I fan have cried onscreen (Spike, Sam, Dean, Ronon, Kirk) and some of them multiple times (oh you Winchesters *smishes*), they don't cry to the degree or in the way they're depicted crying in Those Fics.

You know The Fics I'm talking about. The ones where Spike snots all over his shirt when Buffy tells him he's beneath her and sobs until he can't breathe (heh) when the Scoobies are mean to him and swallows back his tears when Clem suggests politely that if he wants friends he might want to stop drinking so much and take a bath instead and weeps with joy (his hot tears soaking into threadbare cotton sheets) as Xander finally mends his wounded soul (or lack thereof) with his Healing Cock. And there's that fetishization of the crying itself--the prose lingers over it and langorously describes the way the character's body feels in the midst of the crying jag, the way his sobs sound, the way he either struggles against or gives into the physical need to cry. We're talking paragraphs here on the mechanics of crying.

And I suddenly realized as I was trying to discover for myself why I like this Ron story when I backbutton out of so many others that use crying as a plot and characterization point, that maybe I am kind of a fan of OOC weepiness. Sometimes. Maybe. *hides*

So here's my short list of conditions:

1. There's gotta actually be something for the character to cry about. LOL Some physical or emotional pain that's real and present in the story in a vital way and not just Daniel Jackson crying in his bunk because Jack won't let him go to Atlantis and HE REALLY WANTS TO GO! *sniffle*

2. I've got to be invested in the melodrama. I've got to care. And that's what I can't articulate, what frequently just boils down to the mood I'm in, what's got so many variables that I can't possibly unravel them all from the whole knotted up mess.

I know I've read meta before about male characters in slash who cry and how that crying is intended to feminize them, but that's not the draw for me. Regardless of what the Cure thinks, boys do and should cry and I'm not interested in identifying tears as a primarily female trait.

I think maybe what does it for me, bottom line, in the fics that I enjoy where characters cry more than might be expected from their representations in canon is what I enjoy so much about hurt/comfort--that characters are stripped down to their bare bones, to a line drawing of themselves rather than the exquisite detail of an oil painting so that deeply felt emotions can come to the fore when all the defense mechanisms and barriers and whatever else are erased. I think I like it when it feels like a moment of honesty and I suppose there's a bit of voyeurism there as well. I've been allowed to see this private moment of vulnerability. I dunno. *flails*



So here's where you guys come in. I always think better about this sort of thing in conversation. What do you think about crying as a trope in fic? Tell me everything.

Comments

Let's make this all about me

[thelastgoodname.livejournal.com]

I did not realize this for a very long time, but I indulge in the crying trope an awful lot. But just for one character who never cries (except that she does in canon, twice). They're very repressed tears, very much in response to the sort of emotional upheaval that would make most people break down and bawl, but still: I make her cry. A lot.

And I had no idea I was doing this for the longest time. Now that I know, I'm not sure if I'll be able to stop her from sobbing all over her shirt, but at least I'm forewarned and forearmed.

Re: Let's make this all about me

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I am all about making it all about me you. *grins*

Who is the character? Who? Who? Is it Faith?

I have to say that I've never read anything you've ever written and thought that anyone was OOC, so if you make her cry, baby, you must be doing something right. :)

I don't think I do a lot of making characters cry in fic. I don't think. I'll have to look at what I've written and see because I very well could be doing so and not really realizing.

I'm not so much attracted to the trope as a writer than as a reader and I think I like the crying trope best in a certain kind of story that I am periodically drawn to because I want to wallow in something melodramatic and angsty and I want to just dwell in that feeling.

Let me see if I can describe such a story without sounding condescending and bitchy about it. LOL Usually the kind of story that has the OOC weepiness that I like is an h/c story with both physical and emotional trauma. Often there's an element of misunderstanding or suspense. The character ususally feels isolated or alone and the story is one of coming to belong to someone(s). And frequently, the story is about a solid C or B- in terms of writing, you know what I mean? Nothing too terribly poorly written in terms of mechanics and grammar but nothing I'd rave about in terms of provocative and interesting use of language. In others words, utterly readable but nothing new or clever or whathaveyou. In fact, unlike a lot of fanfic where I'm drawn to the beauty of imagery or turns of phrase, this kind of story grabs me wholly in the emotional realm, speaks to me almost totally there. I have spent a lot of time on Wraithbait reading what I must admit are truly terrible John and Rodney are raped stories and thoroughly enjoying them for that reason.

Re: Let's make this all about me

[ariadne83]

Usually the kind of story that has the OOC weepiness that I like is an h/c story with both physical and emotional trauma. Often there's an element of misunderstanding or suspense. The character ususally feels isolated or alone and the story is one of coming to belong to someone(s). And frequently, the story is about a solid C or B- in terms of writing

Ahahaha I think the story I linked you to below might fit that bill, if you haven't read it before. John/Rodney kidfic, prompting John to deal with his long-repressed gayness.

Re: Let's make this all about me

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Yay!

I haven't read SGA kid!fic in a long time.

[ariadne83]

RE 1) The build-up is key. If the character has had a sufficiently crappy day/week/whatever it's perfectly OK in my book for them to reach a point where they just cannot deal anymore. Even John Sheppard although, as you say, it has to be a proportional reaction. Daniel Jackson, who didn't even cry the second time he found out his wife was dead, is not going to cry because "OMG you're so meeean!"

RE 2) For me, the physical description has to be right as well (unless they're a vampire and don't need to breathe haha). They can throw-themselves face-down on the bed and cry, sure. But they can't do that if they're going to *sob* - if you're really all-out sobbing you need a whole lot of space to breathe. And the natural tendency is to curl yourself over when you sob, because you tend to use the muscles of your diaphragm a lot in those situations. (This was my pet peeve with a profic writer I was reading - his female characters would always "sob" in positions that would make that physically uncomfortable if not impossible)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

*nods*

RE 1) And if done correctly, a succession of events that leads to a breakdown at what would otherwise not be a sob worthy moment is also cool with me.

RE 2) This is why you're the plotting and blocking genius of our little duo. It had never even occurred to me that people usually choose certain positions to cry in but, of course, you're right. *loves*

[ariadne83]

if done correctly, a succession of events that leads to a breakdown at what would otherwise not be a sob worthy moment is also cool with me

Exactly! Although sometimes when you've been through stress like that you're too shocked to cry. Your brain is like "Did that really just happen? I think it did but I can't be sure because it seems like bad melodrama." And all you can do is laugh, even though it's horribly inappropriate.

One of my favorite things to read in fic is when a character has been through all sorts of things and just sucks it up, but then one small thing goes wrong - We have no more cookies! - and they just fall apart. Because the big things are too big to wrap their head around, but that one little annoyance is just too fucking much. And the reader knows that it's not really about the cookies, it's about everything proceeding that, but the character is all weepy and at the same time kinda "WTF? Why am I crying over cookies?" but still can't stop themselves.

Thank you, m'dear!

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I've also been in that position where you think you should cry (like it's socially expected at a funeral) or you actually *want* to cry because you know it'd make you feel better and it just won't come.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

And here's the link to the story entire. (http://archiveofourown.org/works/27717?view_adult=true)

[kitty-poker1.livejournal.com]

For me, context is key. I don't cry. Really, I don't. I might sniffle occasionally and a graceful, perfect orb of water may make it's way down my cheek, but I'm not a crier. Sammy or Xander may be used, abused and treated like rubbish and I remain stoic. I don't see it as a female trait but as a human difference. Some people cry; I don't.

It follows that I pretty much detest crying in fic except in extremis. Eyes watering because of physical pain? Okay. A rubbing of the eyes to disguise precipitation? Fine.

I honestly don't see crying as a method of conveying extreme emotion, in either men or women. Nor do I particularly see it as a weakness. It just tends to annoy me.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

*nods*

That makes a lot of sense. I think that what we like in fic is often very strongly related to what we like and/or do ourselves in real life.

I cry so much and at all sorts of provocations which is probably one of the reasons that crying resonates so strongly with me in fic. LOL

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

I don't mind guys crying in fic if it seems believable. And I'm not talking "believable for a guy because guys never cry and are oh so manly", but just a believable reaction for a human being of any gender. So I don't like that sort of OTT weeping because it's just not believable to me.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Normally, I'm right there with you.

I like to think that I have pretty high standards for fanfic in terms of quality of writing and characterization and on most days that's true. And what I mostly want fanfic to do is be clever and wow me.

But apparently, sometimes I just want to wallow in some unbelievable OCC weeping. I dunno. *flails* I contain multitudes?

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

LOL I'm not judging! XD

(And at least it's a little more believable for Ron Weasley than, like, John or Rodney...)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

It's okay even if you are. LOL

I am totally worthy of judgment.