A Connor is of vital importance, and

[lunabee34]

her name isn't John.

At one point in this movie, Sarah Connor assumes that Grace has come back in time to protect Dani because she gives birth to the future male leader of the resistance. "That's all you are," she says. "A womb." Sarah is justifiably angry and bitter because she's talking about herself, really. She's also utterly, utterly wrong.

Every time Cyberdine falls? Every time Skynet fails? Every time Genysis doesn't launch? Every time John knows how to lead the resistance? Every time Dani knows how to lead the resistance? Every time they send a Terminator back, and she wastes it? That's Sarah Fucking Connor every fucking time.

She's the Yoda of this franchise. Everything comes down to her.

I suspected that John would be dead in the timeline of this movie, but for him to die as a kid, just on the heels of ending Judgement Day, is gutting. Sarah saves the world but not for herself.

As much as I hate the circumstances that make her this way, I love that Sarah is still badass, that she's spent the last 20 years killing Terminators and making friends in the military (I'd love that back story; he had to have seen something for him to give her that kind of trust) and laying up weapons caches.

Grace doesn't know who she is, so maybe Sarah dies before Grace can meet her, but even so--everything Dani knows about kicking ass is going to come from Sarah. And maybe they're making a new future now, one where Dani won't have to send Grace back to her death.

The Terminator franchise is Arnold's best role--the machine who becomes more than a machine. I don't buy Carl's explanation that he doesn't really know how to love his family; I just think he doesn't trust that what he feels is real. He loves his wife and his kid; he regrets killing John, and he gives his life to atone for that death. (I mean, Pops loves Sarah in Genysis through and through).

Once he shows up, the humor shows up, and I'm glad. One of the reasons 4 is such a slog is that it is entirely humorless. The humor makes the pathos more delicious as well.

I figured Grace and Carl would die, and I am so glad Sarah doesn't. I thought she might.

All the interplay between Sarah and Carl is amazing. She can never forgive him. How could you forgive the murder of your child? And yet by the end she has recognized him as a person who can care for others. And what about the way he sends her on missions to kill Terminators so that her life can have a purpose? Damn. I'm tearing up just thinking about it.

Finally, you will never convince me that Grace isn't in love with Dani.

Expectations exceeded, my friends. Go see this movie in the theaters! Give it money! I want the world to see that an action movie starring a grandmother (and a grandfather!) is just as badass as something starring younger protagonists and can be just as successful.

*loves*

Comments

[nyctanthes]

Great review. :: adds to list ::

[lunabee34]

It is so worth watching.

[trobadora]

I really hope I can finally get to see this next week. It sounds absolutely delightful.

[lunabee34]

It really, really is.

Absolutely loved it.

[kore]

seeing it tonight! full price!

[lunabee34]

I hope you liked it!!

[kore]

it was GREAT!

[lunabee34]

My expectations were so high which I always try to avoid but it exceeded.

[spikedluv]

*flails* I'm so glad you enjoyed this! I thought it was a great movie. I agree with everything you said. In fact, I read your post twice just so I could bask in it. *g* And given that there are two male terminators, the movie really is all about the ladies. In my TV Talk post from yesterday I included two links. One is about Sarah in the first movie and the other is about how gay this movie is. Very interesting reads.

[lunabee34]

I've got to go read those! I didn't want to be spoiled beforehand.

I'm so glad you liked it, too.

It's just a damn good movie.

[kore]

it was REALLY quite gay (also I loved that the penance/peace carl found after hunting Sarah and killing her son was....protecting another woman and her son from the abusive father)

[lunabee34]

OMG, yes. You will never convince me that Grace isn't 100% in love with Dani and that Dani was on her way there before Grace died.

I really love the way they have allowed multiple versions of Arnold's Terminator to grow a moral code. I love it.

[spikedluv]

Yes to both! Just the fact that Carl gave Sarah a purpose was wonderful. He had to have realized what he'd taken from her and just how empty her life was without John (especially after they'd saved the world, to have her own world rocked so badly).

[kore]

When she said "CARL!" it was like a reversal of how she gets all tough with Kyle in the first movie, too -- "On your feet, soldier!" And the last thing he said just made me cry right in the theatre.

[spikedluv]

Oh man, I loved when she finally used his name after adamantly stating that she would never call him Carl. The last minutes of the show, especially Dani having to get the power core from Grace, had me crying in the theater. I couldn't believe an action movie had so much character and made me cry!

[kore]

Exactly, I REALLY did not expect that kind of connection from the trailers. and apparently the director teared up when he saw the cast and extras all jammed together in the detention center.

[lunabee34]

That was a really powerful scene.

[lunabee34]

OMG, I MISSED IT! I have got to see this again. When did she call him Carl?

[spikedluv]

When he was knocked out and the Terminator was going to kill Dani (?) and she was hurt and couldn't get across the floor to her, she was yelling at him to wake up, then yelled CARL!

[lunabee34]

Well, that's it. I have to watch it again.

[lunabee34]

For John!

*sniffle*

[tamoline]

I'm so glad you liked it as well! I really liked that all three women has their own distinct character arcs, from Dani coming into her own, Grace starting at a panicked Must Protect Dani At All Costs! to more settled acceptance of her agency and Sarah's own route to at least starting to heal her own deep wounds.

[lunabee34]

Yes!

I love all three of them so much. Absolutely adore all the female empowerment.

[tamoline]

And I love that although Grace and Sarah are bad-asses in the typical fairly masculine ways, that Dani is a badass because she cares for people and can connect with them that way, inspire them. She's a different model of aspirational figure to the usual Hollywood action hero.

[lunabee34]

Yes, yes, yes!!!!!

[tamoline]

So, how tempted are you to (re)watch Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles in your binge watching? They grappled with the whole mutable future thing that Genisys and Dark Fate touched on. I really loved them at the time, and I'm kinda tempted to do my own rewatch.

[spikedluv]

I was just thinking about that show and how it ended and wondered if lunabee34 had watched it!

[lunabee34]

No! I've never seen it.

[spikedluv]

It's really good. Great cast, too, even though it took me a while to get used to Lena Heady as Sarah because Linda Hamilton was and will always be Sarah for me. (Good news/bad news, there's only two seasons (31 eps) if you do decide to watch it.)

[lunabee34]

Yeah. I really struggle to watch TV lately. I prefer short seasons and few seasons.

[lunabee34]

I have actually never watched it! I've heard good things about it though.

[tamoline]

It's good. The first season is short because it came out the year of the writer's strike, but it's fairly tight. The second is possibly a little wandery in places, but the end of the season is a decent, if not great, stopping point. The second season also introduces the only terminator other than Carl that's really had moral agency, though she's definitely a far more ambiguous figure than Carl. I think it's worth catching.

[lunabee34]

I am very tempted! Sounds like a good summer project.

[kore]

I was just replying abt how we really saw that side of her in the future, even when everything had gone to shit. She was still really ethical and concerned about people.

[lunabee34]

Yes!

She saves Grace, but she also saves her attackers.

[kore]

And maybe they're making a new future now, one where Dani won't have to send Grace back to her death.

also that was totally what I got, since Grace doesn't know Sarah.

all the women were phenomenal. also did you catch the little bit right at the start, where Dani's telling her father this and that and he says, "You're the boss"! LOL, it's right out there.

[lunabee34]

Yes!

She is the leader of her family, already getting done what needs to be done on that small scale. She's also apparently really awesome at her job; she's got the leadership skills to start with. Now Sarah can teach her how to kick ass.

[kore]

And she was the one who stopped Mom and Big Sis from arguing over her and said she was going to be the bait, it was her choice, and decided where the kill box was, and yes, she was already a leader and organizer and keeping things going. and I loved her speech in the future. That actress was just fantastic.

[lunabee34]

OMG, me too!

It's so hard for us to see John as a leader because he's not born in the first one and he's 13 in the second one. The only thing we can really see in teen John is that he has empathy and he's willing to accept Uncle Bob as a person instead of a machine.

But we can clearly see the antecedents of Dani's leadership in this movie. I love it.

[executrix]

I liked The Sarah Connor Chronicles and I don't even like sci-fi,so...(I started watching it as a Firefly Association Item because of Summer Glau). In a totally disinterested fashion, I can point out that I have written the gold standard of B7/TSCC crossover fics (and, yes, Vila and Sarah are a great couple, as as Joyce Summers and Gan in *another* insane xover), for which you would be the target audience if you watched TSCC:

https://archiveofourown.org/works/198350

[lunabee34]

I am definitely intrigued now that I've got so many people touting the show. I'm putting it on the agenda for this summer.

Do I need to have seen the show to read the fic? If so, I will bookmark it until I watch.

I always love your crossovers; they seem zany maybe at first glance, but you do a good job of finding the places where characterization overlaps in canons and building something from that.

[executrix]

I reread the fic (omg it's eight years old!) and it was so spoilery that I can't even remember half of the plot points...
And thank you! True, I was shamelessly trolling for praise so I enjoyed it. And of course SCC has timey-wimey stuff even though canonical B7 doesn't so it wasn't even COMPLETELY unhinged.

[lunabee34]

Heeeee. I will save it for when I watch then.

Are you working on any new fic right now?

[executrix]

I have two very slow-moving WsIPs, although I did twiddle with one of them last night. One of them would make a suitable Gauda Prime Day card (Dec. 21), although I'd like to get it done before then.

[lunabee34]

*cheerleads*