POV, that hateful bitch

[lunabee34]

One aspect of my writing that I continue to struggle with is POV. I have trouble remaining consistent with the POV I choose and have to proofread carefully for that mistake. Once I’ve chosen a POV, I have difficulty deciding how to include necessary information that the character from whose perspective I’ve chosen to write wouldn’t know. And then there’s the whole thing where I can’t seem to successfully manage any POV except third person limited.



My least favorite POV to read in fanfic is first person. First person feels too intimate for fanfic. As most of you know, fanfic for me is all about the self-insertion. I put myself in the place of one or more of the characters and so enjoy reading on two levels—one in which I am a voyeur/participant in a character’s body and the other more detached level on which I am appreciating plot and language and character insight, etc. When the fic is in first person, I feel like what I’m inhabiting is the author’s version of that character instead of the character. Which I know is an incredibly inarticulate way to say what I mean as of course all characters in fanfic are the products of their authors’ versions, regardless of POV. But first person feels too intimate, too close to me. I need the extra layer of distance that third person affords.

I usually don’t enjoy second person, mostly because I find it annoying and highly alienating to the reader. I also haven’t come across much fic written from this POV. However, I have read a handful of second person fics that I think work really well. For example: You Never Had it So by mandysbitch: You don’t ask Sam why he’s remembering Reno in Texas. Ten minutes ago he asked if you remembered the time he caught you getting a blowjob from a waitress behind a diner in Arkansas. You told him ‘no’ because there are some parts of your shared history that do not warrant nostalgia. Sam finds it amusing now, but at the time you were both horrified. He was thirteen and he still looked up to you. You liked to think you sheltered him.

I generally write from third person limited, and find myself worrying to an extraordinary degree (like scary out of proportion degree) that I remain consistently within the POV I’ve chosen. For example, the last SPN fic I wrote was from Dean’s perspective and included this line originally: Sam notices the clench of Dean’s jaw and relents. “You just had a twenty-four hour bug. Your fever was pretty high, and that’s probably why you don’t remember anything.” On proofreading, I changed the line to read: Sam finally remembers his survival instincts, or else notices the Very Serious clench of Dean’s jaw, and relents. “You just had a twenty-four hour bug. Your fever was pretty high, and that’s probably why you don’t remember anything.” I’ve never back-buttoned a fic because of a lapse in POV, or really even noticed that being much of an issue in fic that I read period, but apparently I am terrified that there’s some flame wielding contingent of fic readers who will immolate me if I’m not slavishly consistent to POV.

I think the second-most difficult POV to write from is third person omniscient. It seems like that should be the easiest POV to write. I certainly enjoy reading it. There I am inside everyone’s heads equally and nobody can keep any secrets from me, no sirree. But when I attempt to write from that POV, I invariably default to third person limited without even realizing it. I find it really difficult to stay inside the heads of an entire cast of characters when I’m writing.

Close third person is my absolute favorite and, I believe, the most difficult POV to write from. This is the third person limited POV in which both the narrative, expositiony bits and the dialogue are all written in the POV character’s voice. ana_grrl is the queen of this POV for me. (From The End that Crowns Us: "I'll haunt your gorram ass, don't think otherwise," he says, giving Jayne his best hard look. And Jayne, he's never believed in ghosts, but he figures that Mal would do something like that. Just to be difficult. Once he's dead, once the oxygen wears out, once his body's blue and frozen and drifting along in Serenity. But Jayne still ain't going to promise not to mess with Inara, once they're off in the shuttle. Hell, he knows better than her what needs to be done. He should be in charge. So he ain't making promises to a man what's going to be dead soon enough.) I’d never been able to get this POV to work for me until recently when I started writing in SPN. I tried with Firefly fic but bombed, mostly because I could get Jayne’s dialogue right, but couldn’t stop the narrative bits from waxing poetic in words the big lug would never dream of using.



All of which leaves me with the following questions:

*What are your issues with POV?
*What about the occasional and subtle lapse of POV in fic? Eyeball bleeding deal breaker? Doesn’t even register? Somewhere in between?
*What are your favorite and least favorite POVs to write from? To read? Why?
*What are your reasons for choosing to write in a certain POV? Do your POV choices change depending on the fandom, the character you’re highlighting, the plot of the fic, or something else?

Comments

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Oh, man, POV. My most troubling issue lately is whose to write from. Most of my stories come with POV and tense attached - I "hear" the story in Dean's voice, or know it *has* to be in River's POV, etc. - but sometimes I just have the *idea* and can think of two or three different ways to tell it; then it becomes a matter of trying it out and seeing which fits, or stalling out before I even start because I can't decide.

I do find breaks in POV jarring, if only because my default reading/writing setting is third limited, and I've had it beaten into me by betas not to change POV in the middle of a scene, because it gets confusing, and it also breaks intimacy and flow. I will let one or two instances slip, but if it happens consistently in a story, or is a certain type of break (the really horrid kind where the person is describing themselves - "Dean's lambent green eyes glistened with a jewel-like sheen of tears as he watched Sam walk away and realized he might never see his brother again." or "Eowyn's hair glinted like molten gold in the moonlight as she waited for Faramir to come to her." - those are usually clear signs of a new writer) I'll likely back out of it in annoyance.

Third omniscient is hard, and I find it off-putting except in the hands of a really good author; too often it slips into multiple third limited without any delineation of who is actually telling the story, which is problematic for me, because then I spend time going, "but how did Y *know* what X was thinking?"

I have written in first person on rare occasion, but I really dislike it in fanfic - 1. it almost never sounds like the character as I hear him or her; 2. it becomes a crutch for the author, especially if they always write in first person from the same character's POV; 3. it tends to sound more like the author than the character.

Second person is...I've written successfully from second person POV once or twice, and I've seen it said that it's meant to foster intimacy, putting the reader right there in the character's shoes, but I feel it's a *distancing* technique on the part of the character. I think of it as a character telling a story, and saying "you" instead of "me" - so I think it only works with certain characters - Remus or Snape or Bruce Wayne - men who are very good at compartmentalizing in some ways - or certain situations that might be too traumatic for the character to relate in first or close third - River, perhaps.

Most of the time, badly written second person reads like a "Choose Your Own Adventure" story, and that's just not what I'm looking for. And sometimes it just feels like the author is saying, "Hey look at me! Look how clever I am!" Which also happens sometimes with other stylistic experiments which in the end don't feel necessary to the telling of the story.

I think I manage a good, tight, in character third person POV most of the time - most especially from Mal's POV for some reason - I don't know why it's so easy for me to slip into his head, but it is, and I can write for days in his voice without slipping. I have a harder time with characters who are less prone to the sort of constant questioning - I hesitate to call what Mal does navel-gazing, but I do think he's prone to overthinking, and characters like that - Remus, Sam Winchester, etc. - are the best kinds to use as narrators. Writing from Zoe's POV, for whom action follows thought like breathing - not that she's not thoughtful, but that she's not going to analyse herself into paralysis, like Mal might - or Dean, who is going to avoid thinking about a lot of stuff if he can possibly help it, or Danny Ocean, who is always running a con on multiple layers, even inside his own head - those are the characters from whose POVs I find difficult to write, because opportunities for rumination and emotional exposition are nearly nil, and you have to express all that stuff in action, especially with someone like Dean or Danny, who is going to consistently conceal his actual feelings when speaking. A lot of that stuff is great in visual media, where you can see the clench of a jaw or fist, the slump of the shoulders straightening, the quick, furtive glance away before the not-quite meeting of someone else's gaze, but those are harder for me to convey in writing.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

too often it slips into multiple third limited without any delineation of who is actually telling the story

This is one of the problems I run into when I try to write from that POV.

I've seen it said that it's meant to foster intimacy, putting the reader right there in the character's shoes, but I feel it's a *distancing* technique on the part of the character.

I agree with you there. I've always felt alienated from the piece when it's written in second person. My students will sometimes say of a thing that's written in second person that it's more universal, that the "you" let's the reader put herself in the story. But I just feel left out--"you" feels too big to me most of the time. You who? You everybody? LOL Because there is this ambiguity to "you," I feel much more distant from the character I'm reading about.

It's interesting what you say about the kinds of characters that lend themselves more easily to narration. I think one of the reasons that Xander ends up narrating a lot of Buffyverse fic is that he's rather verbose and not so big on the concealing of his emotions. I like fic very much that manages to get inside one of those characters who is tightly emotionally reined (like Dean) and convincingly show me what that character is thinking--the thought behind the clenched jaw. (And incidentally, man can Jensen Ackles clench a jaw something fierce)

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

This is one of the problems I run into when I try to write from that POV.

Me, too. I've done it with framing devices, having the beginning and end be in that sort of "Dear reader" tone and then the actual story be in someone's POV - "Tending to Grace" kind of works like that, where the opening and closing sections are from a sort of generalized 'town' POV before Simon comes in to tell the story. I think it lends a kind of fairy-tale vibe to stories to do that, but I don't think I could have handled that kind of POV for a whole story, even one that's only 2500 words long.

Because there is this ambiguity to "you," I feel much more distant from the character I'm reading about.

*nod*

And it's also a way for the character to alienate himself from himself, as it were. At least, that's how it works best for me.

I think one of the reasons that Xander ends up narrating a lot of Buffyverse fic is that he's rather verbose and not so big on the concealing of his emotions.

*nod nod*

And also, he's the one who sees. It's kind of his job to be the sideline reporter.

I like fic very much that manages to get inside one of those characters who is tightly emotionally reined (like Dean) and convincingly show me what that character is thinking--the thought behind the clenched jaw. (And incidentally, man can Jensen Ackles clench a jaw something fierce)

Mmm... yes, yes he does. And yeah, I've found a comfort zone writing from Dean's POV, possibly more because I overidentify with some of his issues than anything, and it's a lot of fun detailing the split between what he's thinking/feeling and what he says, though sometimes it can be difficult when he doesn't really have the emotional language to process some of it.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

And also, he's the one who sees. It's kind of his job to be the sideline reporter.

Somewhere down- or up-thread, Exec calls him "the fray adjacent" which has a nice ring to it.

I think it lends a kind of fairy-tale vibe to stories to do that

*nods*

I really like re-workings of fairytales, and I do like that kind of framing device to fic. I'm actually working on a piece of super!crack right now that uses that structure. LOL