In the Beginning

[lunabee34]

I had intended to write another essay about "In the Beginning" and then lost the impetus while grading one hundred million midterms. So here's the less coherent episode review:



Less meaty:

1. music! I love the Allman Brothers.
2. U.S.S. Enterprise. John is a Trekkie. Be still my heart. Dalorians. Yay!
3. Dean van Halen. *snort*
4. "Mom is a babe. I'm going to hell. Again."
5. Deanna and Samuel
6. web of information LOL
7. "To do the job, Dad."
8. That scene with Mary and Dean where he begs her not to get out bed--that slayed me y'all. Slayed me. Dead. JA continues to hit those scenes out of the park.
9. "Son of a bitch." All three generations now. :)
10. So straight from the horse's mouth; the YED is not Sam's father.
11. Endgame? Can't wait.
12. That scene with Mary kissing the YED in her dad's body is all kinds of awesome creepy and disturbing.


And the more meaty:

1. John is clearly concerned about class issues. He's firmly blue collar--a mechanic from a family of mechanics and although we know otherwise, he believes that Mary's family doesn't approve of him because of his social standing. I wonder how keenly John feels the loss of social status when he becomes a Hunter; I wonder how much bitterness he feels (for himself and for his sons).

2. I was wondering if perhaps the ease with which country bumpkin promised his offspring to Azael wil prompt Dean to revisit his assessment of Bella. Clearly, that guy wanted his father dead but was completely unaware that his desire was being taken seriously or that he'd even communicated it to someone else. If he can take out a demonic hit ACCIDENTALLY *sheesh*, then surely Bella's story deserves some more Winchester attention.

3. How does Mary explain her dead father and mother? How do they handle that with the authorities? Does John believe that he is responsible for killing Samuel in Mary's defense? Is the official story that Samuel killed Deanna and then went psycho on Mary, forcing John to kill him?

4. Castiel says that destiny can't be changed. And we have a Sam who through four seasons of SPN has been trying to uncover his destiny and to change it. I like that we're having a fate vs free will discussion. Just how much is Sam able to control? How much is beyond his power to change?

5. I pretty much figured that Castiel would pit Sam against Dean. I think that ultimately he's going to be rather displeased with the results, but *shrug*

6. Why does Mary in the pilot suddenly forget her life as a hunter? We've seen canonical evidence from Sam that even though you leave the game, you never stop protecting yourself. Sam wakes up in the middle of the night, ready to kick some ass even after 4 (or two) years away at college. Even if Mary is not actively seeking out supernatural danger, I find it very difficult to believe that she would not be doing what she could to protect her home. Especially after she had children. I suppose you could argue that she wasn't really sure what the YED wanted to take and that she was afraid that if she refused him entry with a salt line, etc., that John would immediately fall down dead or something of that sort. But if I had been her, I would've reached out to my old hunter network and I would have barricaded myself and my family in the house and I would have been practicing my ninja moves on the off chance that I could stop whatever the YED wanted. Surely Mary is aware of the anniversary of her parents' death; I don't buy at all that she wasn't aware of the date and that ten years had passed. If you read my previous essay about Castiel then you know why I believe she didn't heed Dean's warning; I don't think he was ever actually there.

7. Finally, I am so pleased to see that hunting is of matrilineal descent in the Winchester family. John may have taught them everything they know, but Sam and Dean are Mary's boys. She begins the cycle of sacrifice in their family. Their legacy is from her.


Expect more episode reviews today.

Comments

[tabaqui]

I can't really be coherent about all this. I loved the episode immensely, despite some bobbles.

I adored seeing Mary-the-hunter, and John the 'civilian' who can't be trusted to be tough enough, even though he's a Marine vet!

I love Dean pretty much falling in love with his family. You can see it, and you can see the devastation in his face when, one by one, they die. God, if the boy didn't have PTSD before....

And i think you're right, Castiel doesn't have a clue what he's done. Dean may be freaked and terrified at first, but then he's gonna be *pissed*. Like i said before - Dean only takes order from on man, and Castiel? Ain't him.

Just - so wonderful. I love having this backstory now, love it! And i think that Mary probably did take what precautions she could? But as we see in the future, the YED demon is immune to pretty much everything. The huge ward that Sam Cold built stopped him, but holy water didn't touch him, and i'll bet salt wouldn't stop him, either. I'll bet she had protections hidden, but was so invested in John never knowing, and her sons never knowing, that she skimped on them in an effort to keep them hidden.

Can't wait for you to see the next ep - wheeeee!
:)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

OH yes! You're right; holy water had no effect on him. I had forgotten that. So we can assume that perhaps nothing she did had any effect. This is a very good point.

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

Eee! I was hoping you'd do a review. I think this is officially my absolute favorite SPN episode ever, and I love your take on things :)

1. I went back and watched some of the Papa episodes after ITB, and while I suspect Morgan wasn't at all playing it that way (in fact, I think this is more of a lucky retcon, based on Morgan's portrayal), your assessment is dead on. This is a bitter, unhappy man. He lives his life, yes, but he's living it for others at this point -- there's nothing left for himself. Mary had become his touchstone of Other, Other Class, Other Life, his walking fantasy. When he lost it, I think he lost what made him John Winchester. He became what Mary had run away from, someone who is the worst (stereotypically; I have nothing but respect for those who do these jobs, and they're pretty fucking important) kind of blue-collar, because he's not a mechanic, or a laborer, or whatever union you want to mention. He's a drifter. He's a loner. He's a killer.

He's everything he'd run from, and everything Mary ran from. It's the worst kind of fate, and I think he's incredibly aware of it.

2. I hope they do pursue it. I mean, how many times have we wished someone dead or hurt and not meant it at all? Which says a lot about humans/western culture, too, but still.

3. I was wondering about that! Um. TV hand waving?

4. Was that what he said, specifically? Huh. I took it to mean that this particular past sequence couldn't be altered even if Dean was suddenly there, and that this fate was already complete. This could also be my insane dislike of time paradoxes, though :)

5. This? Is part of the reason I am so insanely in love with this season. I want that. Some of it does have to do with my Sam issues -- in that, he really needs to grow up in certain respects and understand consequences, something I don't think he really does get at the moment -- but a lot of it is just. God. Such a good story and yeah, I think when push comes to shove, it's the Winchesters against the world. But how they get there... :D

6. I'm not sure comparing Mary with Sam is valid. Here's my thinking: Sam is still a kid, particularly when he runs away to college. He's not turning his back on his life so much as his life and his family, when it's pretty clear that Mary doesn't want to turn her back on her family, just their plans for her. I know it's similar, but I don't think it's the same because Mary understands.

Lemme see if I can explain this in real words, hang on. Mary is making a choice. She's not running away, the way I still think Sam is, and I don't think she wanted to turn her back on hunting so much as being a hunter. Does that distinction make any sense? Mary gets the goods, bads, and indifferents of being a hunter. All Sam got, back then, was how much he wanted out.

And then, once they're both out, I think Mary made a very conscious decision to let certain things go. It's been a good number of years between her being all seventeen and impetuous and when she's a wife and mother of two (didn't Papa go to the military in there, too? I can't remember), so it's more than just the three-ish it was for Sam. She's found a routine she likes, and is sticking to it.

Then there's her knowing this was going to happen. Again, it's hard to really work this because they're ret-conning (effectively, but still) something that was filmed four years ago, without this in mind. Reading that portrayal doesn't have the layers it should to really make this fantastic, something I don't blame them at all for. So we can't dissect any nuances in her performance, not really.

But since it is a ret-con, if she knows, if she's come to terms with it, if she's truly decided that she is out of the hunter business completely... I don't know. I can see her letting go in a way I have a hard time seeing Sam.

I can has Sam issues? :)

For the rest of it, though, I also think that maybe Dean wasn't really there, or maybe if he was, it was like Sixth Sense -- there but not really there. It makes more sense than genuine time-travel, anyway?

7. Yes. LOTS AND LOTS YES.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I want to hear more about your take on Sam.

*points at icon*

In many ways, I agree with you re: Sam and Mary. There's a component of teenage rebellion in Sam's departure from his family that's not present in Mary's departure. There's no indication, like you say, that she's angry with her mom or dad or that she wants to cut ties with them. But I do think their underlying motivation for leaving is the same. Mary says she wants to leave because she wants to be safe; she knows she never truly can be. What she really means is that she wants to be normal, and how many times have we heard Sam say that? She also doesn't want her children to be raised as hunters. Sam has a girl friend that he intends to propose to and presumably to make a family with. In the heat of his final argument with John before he leaves for Stanford, is he thinking about making babies? Probably not. But I can very easily imagine that Sam has thought about/fantasized about children. He's the one that wants friends and ties, after all.

:)

You're absolutely right that they have to deal with the pilot as it was filmed and there's no way they can redo that pivotal scene. So yeah. Huge (and as you, largely successful) retcon. So there's lots of room to wank why Mary behaves the way she does in that episode.

Castiel does say that destiny can't be changed. His words exactly. It's a little ambiguous whether he means that past events can't be changed once they've transpired or that destiny in the sense of fated events can't be circumvented. Either way, it's a fascinating idea.

I can't remember if you read my Castiel as Trickster figure essay, but I basically said that Castiel didn't really send Dean back in time, just to some closed off loop of time to show him what had transpired. Otherwise, his dad and teh YED would remember having met him and his mother would remember his warning.

Part 2

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

And a lot of this ties in with myself. I say that freely. I am a lot like Willow -- Sue and I have talked about this extensively -- and I see a lot of myself in her and I hate it. HATE. So it makes me far more down on a character I might have appreciated more, had the similarities not been so powerful. I also have more phsyical issues with Jared's overwhelming size -- that's an instant turn-off to me, on an instinctive level. Can't control it, unfortunately.

But for all of that, I don't think I've got his character pegged wrong. He's an idealist. But he's an idealist in the worst way because he can justify things on his own sense of personal goodness and trustworthiness, something that is neither as strong nor as prevalent as he thinks it is. It is there, yes. Sam's a good guy, despite my bashing him. But he's a kid, a baby when it comes to some of the harder, more complicated practicalities of life. Dean's already moved past those issues because he doesn't need to justify making the world a better place -- he either does, or he doesn't. Period.

Sam is willing to do something dark and potentially dangerous not just because it needs to be done and sometimes you make the choices that are given to you, but because he, personally, is doing it. And to him, that makes it okay. It wouldn't be okay if anybody else did it, because they aren't Sam, the Awesome (okay, not awesome, but to his mind, trustworthy?)

To me, this undercurrent is constantly around Sam, like scum I see out of the corner of my eye. It's not always present, but it never really goes all the way away, either. There's something off about him, whether it's his youth or the demon's taint... honestly, I vote more towards youth. He's lost a lot of things but I think in many ways, it was never personal. It was never truly humbling. Not yet, anyway. He's still certain of his limits and how easily he can break them. Until he loses that, I'm always going to see that layer of scum and it drives me mad, because I don't know how others don't see it.

And by others I mean the ones that go omgsammywammy. Not, like, normal people :)

Hi, I blather a lot at you!

I love it when you blather! Yay!

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

and I see a lot of myself in her and I hate it. HATE.

That's really interesting. I also see a lot of myself in Willow's character. The mousy nerdy know it all; the addiction issues; the way I was treated in high school. I don't have the strong visceral reaction to our similarities that you do, though, and I wonder if that's because I really see more of myself in high school Willow than older Willow and I made peace with high school and the shit storm that was years ago? If I was still having issues with being bullied or what have you, it might make me much more uncomfortable on that level. I like Willow's character the least of all the Scoobies, but that's mostly because I think her magical addiction arc was written very inconsistently and poorly and was over all el stupido. LOL (This is not to say that I think *you* have Willow issues because you are still hung up on high school but rather that I think I don't have Willow issues because I feel so different from my high school self now that I am not bothered that high school Willow and high school Lorraine are very alike.)

I also have more phsyical issues with Jared's overwhelming size -- that's an instant turn-off to me, on an instinctive level. Can't control it, unfortunately.

Does Ronon ping you the same way?

Until he loses that, I'm always going to see that layer of scum and it drives me mad, because I don't know how others don't see it.

I don't really see it. :) But I think you've got a very sound argument for why you feel that way.

Re: I love it when you blather! Yay!

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

I wonder if that's because I really see more of myself in high school Willow than older Willow

I think that might be it. I do see more of myself in older, less-reliable Willow, compared to the high school version. I mean, there are similiarities there too -- and I liked high school! I know I'm insane -- but it's when she starts getting confident, and self-confident that things really start pinging.

Also: *hugs you a lot*

Does Ronon ping you the same way?

Yeah. All big, imposing guys do, including Ronon, Angel, Riley, etc. It's irrelevant to their personalities or actions, too, a very instinctive thing where I'm hardwired to take big guys = bad. Hi, my issues. I can deal with them, to degree. I mean, I really like Ronon a lot. But if you stuck me next to Jason Momoa, I would be doing a shrinking mouse act that had nothing to do with his actual threat-level.

Honestly, if Jared wasn't so damned tall, I'd probalby react to Jensen as well. But since compared to him, Dean looks normal-sized, it doesn't hit me as hard.

I don't really see it. :)

Yeah, but you aren't calling me a Sam-basher, either, and you're listening to why, which is honestly all I want. Also, to not be called a Sam-basher. I don't hate him, and I don't want to bash him. There reasons for his characterization are sound, and make the show interesting. It's just not something I like very much, unfortunately.

Re: I love it when you blather! Yay!

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

but it's when she starts getting confident, and self-confident that things really start pinging.

*nods*

That makes sense. And thanks for understanding what I was trying to say. :)

All big, imposing guys do

I've had some friends who felt the same way about men in RL. I wasn't fannish then so I didn't ask them if that feeling also applied to television characters or characters in books, but now I wonder.

you aren't calling me a Sam-basher

Oh, hell no. If Show and its characters weren't complex enough to allow for a variety of interpretations then I would be FUCKING BORED WITH IT. LOL

Part 3

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

Either way, it's a fascinating idea.

Ah, okay. That is... yes, very fascinating. It's also potentially subjective. Castiel is exposing himself as more and more of an unreliable narrator (which, YAY) and I haven't seen tonight's ep yet, but I am quite taken with the theory that what 'God' knows and what Castiel knows are very different things. I'm riffing off of Winter's theory, btw. So he may say that it's destiny, and unchangeable, whatever the 'it' is, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

I am so so so wanting Castiel to be that unreliable. Please. That would be awesome. Angels as Not-Authority!

I haven't read that essay! I should, because yeah, that makes a lot more sense, not just for time-travel reasons (hate time-travel devices. hate. it's probably why I was eh on sga's last man when everyone else loved it) but also because if Castiel has the ability to send people in and out of time... that's pretty heavy-duty stuff. Much more likely to have some kind of elaborate, painful storytelling.

Um. I apologize for babbly? But I like babbling at you!

You babble like a beautiful brook. Hello, my alliteration. I show you it.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Castiel is exposing himself as more and more of an unreliable narrator (which, YAY)

Amen to that, sister. Call him Ishmael.

Here's my essay: http://lunabee34.livejournal.com/184530.html

in which I argue that Castiel is actually a Trickster figure rather than an angel.

[crevanfox.livejournal.com]

6. Why does Mary in the pilot suddenly forget her life as a hunter? We've seen canonical evidence from Sam that even though you leave the game, you never stop protecting yourself. Sam wakes up in the middle of the night, ready to kick some ass even after 4 (or two) years away at college. Even if Mary is not actively seeking out supernatural danger, I find it very difficult to believe that she would not be doing what she could to protect her home

I got the impression that she had always wanted out of the life. The YED alluded to it at least once. Unforetunatly I can't remember the exact quote-blaa. The Hunter lifestyle cost her a normal childhood, and later her family, almost John, and something horrible that she had agreed to in the future, but can't really prepare for. She's seen how powerful it is.

When faced with something that horrible, but in a future you don't have to face yet a lot of people get selective amnesia about the facts, like smokers who are convinced cancer won't get them, and continue full ahead to the black lung.

Just my 2 cents.

Love the recaps. Please keep it up.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Selective amnesia is an interesting idea to explain why she seems so unlike a hunter in the pilot.

I wish they had filmed the pilot with this episode in mind, but as LadyCat says, we can hardly fault them for the retcon, especially when it's so successful.

And I'm glad you like my reviews. :)

Part 1

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

Oh, I definitely think Sam wanted that 'normal' life, including family, friends, and eventually babies. Hm. Lemme see if I can break this down in a way that makes sense.

Mary wanting to be normal = Buffy

Sam wanting to be normal = um... Willow? I know she never really wanted to be 'normal', but I still get a Willow vibe there.

Buffy wants to be normal because she's not, she's seen too much and she wants the innocence. Buffy wants normal because she's tried of paying the price, but she knows that if she's not someone else is. Buffy sees normal for exactly what it is, good and bad. Normal isn't a touchstone for her, the way class-issues were for John. Normal is something that if she wants it, she'll cling to it.

Mary clung to it, to the point where I think there was a lot of active denial.

I know the Willow = Sam thing doesn't make a lot of sense, but bear with me. Willow wanted things because she thought she should have them. She wanted friends and relationships not just for the people who might be in her life, but so she can point to them and say look, here are all the things that make me spectacular, my awesome friends, my kick-ass SO, my awesome magical powers. They were status symbols, in a way. That doesn't negate the fact that she loved the people in her life, or valued them, or wasn't damned good and passionate about her chosen, uh, addiction. But there was a status surrounding them, a sense of distance and possessiveness that's a little childish and a lot selfish.

Sam has that. Sam has the same self-righteous my-way-is-best-even-if-whoopsy-I-opened-up-hell. Yes, he wanted a normal life but I think along with wanting it, he wanted to be able to point to it and say see? Normal! I'm totally normal! Go away craziness! Mary knows the cost of what she's doing, and she's making an active choice. In a lot of ways, Sam's running away -- from his history, from his family's expectations, from who he is, and who he sees himself as.

A lot of this, btw, isn't negative. A lot of it's flat out normal. But where Mary/Buffy have that understanding that comes with being damned experience (and I see Mary as far more experienced than Dean is, despite being younger in ITB, and yes, partly that's because she's a girl) with real loss and real pain and real consequences, Sam/Willow have ideals of what they want to have and who they should be and it gives them this weird sort of selfish distance, for lack of a much, much better term.

Re: Part 1

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Sam has the same self-righteous my-way-is-best-even-if-whoopsy-I-opened-up-hell. Yes, he wanted a normal life but I think along with wanting it, he wanted to be able to point to it and say see? Normal! I'm totally normal! Go away craziness!

Oh, that's interesting. I'd never heard his decision to leave articulated like that, but I think you're right.

And what about now that he's been four years back in the saddle as a Hunter? Do you think he's changed?

Re: You babble like a beautiful brook. Hello, my alliteration. I show you it.

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

Do you think he's changed?

I do, yes. Sam of now is not the Sam who left for school. He has grown up enough to get some of the nuances and complications of life. But, again, much like Willow I think it's going to take something a lot more serious and, well, traumatic for the character to mature to the levels I want him to. I think we'll be seeing that in this season and the next, but I dunno.

For all of that, I don't think he's lost that idea that there are things he should have, both personally and professionally. I think they've changed and matured but... not enough, not yet.

Re: You babble like a beautiful brook. Hello, my alliteration. I show you it.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

For all of that, I don't think he's lost that idea that there are things he should have, both personally and professionally. I think they've changed and matured but... not enough, not yet.

And now I am so intrigued by this version of Sam and I WANT FIC ABOUT THIS, DAMMIT! LOL