Notes on the making of "Men of Integrity"
Dec. 14th, 2008 12:44 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lunabee34This fic started out with this line of dialogue I wrote mainly to be silly: "I've always loved this particular Wagner piece," Caldwell says and leans out over the balcony, light from the east Pier reflecting majestically off his bald pate. (Source) ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ariadne83 and I started comment tagging, and very quickly, the fic stopped being something we were writing for laughs and morphed into what I think is more of a character study of both men than anything else. Thus the good ship Woolwell began its maiden voyage.
I have no idea if any of you guys are interested in this or not, but I'd like to preserve for myself some of the meta thinking we did when pairing these two.
1. ARIADNE: There's a few things to consider: what point in season 5 this is set; how much we think Woolsey and Caldwell know each other from Stargate Command (Woolsey appears on SG-1 from season 7, and his first appearance is in order to make a comprehensive review of the programme and the decisions made by its leaders, so there's potential there for initial hostility between them or for Woolsey to assume that Caldwell would be as hostile as the rest). Woolsey is an outsider, training a critical eye on them all. Maybe Woolsey's seen Caldwell around there, interviewed him and worked with him, but never before in a capacity where Woolsey was fully in charge - change in their dynamic.
2. ARIADNE: I think it should be [set] early-ish, before Woolsey's really settled into his position. If it's not long after "The Seed," that gives the exchange about the rules a bitter-sweet bite, because of John's "If you'd played by the rules, she'd be dead" speech.
LUNABEE34: Okay. Goodie. Let's set it after "The Seed." Lemme go refresh myself on the season 5 timeline. Okay, this is the episode where John basically decides that Woolsey's not all awfulness. LOL He's beamed down from the Daedalus, so they at least had that time together the whole long way to Pegaus. The Daedalus is still in Pegasus in the next episode because the comment is made that the Daedalus can't detect Ronon's subcutaneous transmitter. So let's say this piece is set in between "The Seed" and "Broken Ties."
3. ARIADNE: Title. Yeah, I saved that for last because I have no idea. Something Woolsey-ish, because it's all from his perspective. 'Men of Integrity' leaped out at me when I was re-reading transcripts for SG-1's "Inauguration" because it's how Woolsey describes himself, but I don't know. It might be too loaded. Thoughts?
LUNABEE34: I think Men of Integrity is a good title, especially if Woolsey called himself that. I wonder if some title indicating his status as a newbie might be good. Like Inauguration, or Debriefing, or something else. Honestly, I have NOTHING on a title, so whatever you want is awesome.
ARIADNE: Hrm. I don't really see Woolsey as a newbie, per se. He hasn't been in charge in Atlantis before, but he has been there, and he was involved with the Stargate programme before they even found Atlantis so chances are he knows/has interviewed some of the people that wound up working there. I'm torn: Inauguration as a title makes me smile since it's the name of the episode the "integrity" quote comes from, and it's one of my favourite Woolsey moments of all time (*flails* He goes through the whole thing of criticising SGC and being unpopular, and presents his report to the president... and then turns in another one condemning his own bosses, simply because he believes they're corrupt, with no concern for his own position or his *life*. He suspects them of an attempted assassination and yet he turns on them *waves pom-poms* They gave him such great character development, and that was only his second appearance in the franchise. Awesome episode, for a clips show). But The Seed is more of a trial-by-fire than an inauguration. It's Woolsey coming face-to-face with the realities behind the mission reports he's read, and having to adapt when he *thought* he already had all the answers - much like Rodney in 48 Hours, now that I think about it, and Caldwell in "Conversion." Which is to say, I think 'Men of Integrity' kind of works for both Woolsey and Caldwell (they're both used to having people quesion their motives, and having to carry on regardless) even if it is a little clunky. I think it depends entirely on what you think the essence of the story is - Woolsey, finding his way, or the two of them finding common ground. Also, I still have a giant crush on Woolsey.
And finally, excerpts ofana_grrl's lovely commentary:
Okay, onto your story (I love the 'ship name 'woolwell', I was confused at first, thinking of the clothing brand Woolrich).
The whole 'Caldwell trying to have good relationships with Atlantis command staff' bit makes me smile because it's true, and also, I think he does it to get some. Go Caldwell! It also cracks me up that it's canon that Woolsey feels most comfortable in a suit. I like the way you work this in.
This sounds very Woolsey to me: "...but the intergalactic voyage left him with a surplus of time that he filled in the rather fruitless exercise of cataloguing all the ways in which Caldwell interests him."
Also: smooth, Woolsey! "Would you care to join me for dinner tonight? I would appreciate the opportunity to get to know you better."
I like the point about Woolsey not always making the best first impression. It intersects nicely with the way that Caldwell doesn't exactly do so either. It's a good way to let the reader start to see the overlaps in the way they lead and the way the interact with others.
This:
"Besides," Caldwell continues, "if there's one thing I've learned about Atlantis, it's that it teaches you to be flexible." He lifts his head, quirks an eyebrow and says, "I'm looking forward to seeing what the place does with you."
Woolsey chokes on his mouthful of wine and ends up dabbing at his mouth with a corner of tablecloth, determined to save at least one of his silk shirts from ruin, although if the cuffs are any indication, this will be a losing battle.
Woolsey - already beginning to suspect that 1) Atlantis is a bit of perv 2) So are a lot of the people station there.
Here I think there's a little POV slippage: tracing the delicate shell of Woolsey's ear. I can't quite imagine Woolsey thinking of his own ear as a delicate shell.
fumbling with Woolsey's ridiculously complicated belt. -- And I bet Caldwell kind of likes the complication of it!
I like the recognition, here of the implications for this, and also the reminder that Woolsey is a man with plans and isn't exactly retiring: Apparently, he is Caldwell's choice, and Woolsey is well aware of what it means that Caldwell is willing to eschew his belief in the sanctity of rules in order to be with him here and now. Woolsey can't help but be humbled. Not that that translates to him being too chivalrous. Woolsey has plans for this man.
then Caldwell dresses with military efficiency -- Something tells me that Woolsey dresses no less efficiently, if efficiently in different ways! Also, I think the jealousy and darkness he feels re: how many times as Caldwell done this works really well - the pettiness of it, and Woolsey's recognition of how ridiculous that pettiness is (because he is self-aware enough to be critical of his own flaws).
I like the way Caldwell walks out at the end - it works for me. And I like the little bit of hope and playfulness/happiness that you have the end. I think the end works very well! You really have a knack for taking pairings that seem unlikely and making them work! I enjoyed reading this - thank you for sending it to me! I hope the comments are somewhat useful.
ariadne83, let me know if there's anything you'd like to add to this post. :)
ariadne83 and I started comment tagging, and very quickly, the fic stopped being something we were writing for laughs and morphed into what I think is more of a character study of both men than anything else. Thus the good ship Woolwell began its maiden voyage.I have no idea if any of you guys are interested in this or not, but I'd like to preserve for myself some of the meta thinking we did when pairing these two.
1. ARIADNE: There's a few things to consider: what point in season 5 this is set; how much we think Woolsey and Caldwell know each other from Stargate Command (Woolsey appears on SG-1 from season 7, and his first appearance is in order to make a comprehensive review of the programme and the decisions made by its leaders, so there's potential there for initial hostility between them or for Woolsey to assume that Caldwell would be as hostile as the rest). Woolsey is an outsider, training a critical eye on them all. Maybe Woolsey's seen Caldwell around there, interviewed him and worked with him, but never before in a capacity where Woolsey was fully in charge - change in their dynamic.
2. ARIADNE: I think it should be [set] early-ish, before Woolsey's really settled into his position. If it's not long after "The Seed," that gives the exchange about the rules a bitter-sweet bite, because of John's "If you'd played by the rules, she'd be dead" speech.
LUNABEE34: Okay. Goodie. Let's set it after "The Seed." Lemme go refresh myself on the season 5 timeline. Okay, this is the episode where John basically decides that Woolsey's not all awfulness. LOL He's beamed down from the Daedalus, so they at least had that time together the whole long way to Pegaus. The Daedalus is still in Pegasus in the next episode because the comment is made that the Daedalus can't detect Ronon's subcutaneous transmitter. So let's say this piece is set in between "The Seed" and "Broken Ties."
3. ARIADNE: Title. Yeah, I saved that for last because I have no idea. Something Woolsey-ish, because it's all from his perspective. 'Men of Integrity' leaped out at me when I was re-reading transcripts for SG-1's "Inauguration" because it's how Woolsey describes himself, but I don't know. It might be too loaded. Thoughts?
LUNABEE34: I think Men of Integrity is a good title, especially if Woolsey called himself that. I wonder if some title indicating his status as a newbie might be good. Like Inauguration, or Debriefing, or something else. Honestly, I have NOTHING on a title, so whatever you want is awesome.
ARIADNE: Hrm. I don't really see Woolsey as a newbie, per se. He hasn't been in charge in Atlantis before, but he has been there, and he was involved with the Stargate programme before they even found Atlantis so chances are he knows/has interviewed some of the people that wound up working there. I'm torn: Inauguration as a title makes me smile since it's the name of the episode the "integrity" quote comes from, and it's one of my favourite Woolsey moments of all time (*flails* He goes through the whole thing of criticising SGC and being unpopular, and presents his report to the president... and then turns in another one condemning his own bosses, simply because he believes they're corrupt, with no concern for his own position or his *life*. He suspects them of an attempted assassination and yet he turns on them *waves pom-poms* They gave him such great character development, and that was only his second appearance in the franchise. Awesome episode, for a clips show). But The Seed is more of a trial-by-fire than an inauguration. It's Woolsey coming face-to-face with the realities behind the mission reports he's read, and having to adapt when he *thought* he already had all the answers - much like Rodney in 48 Hours, now that I think about it, and Caldwell in "Conversion." Which is to say, I think 'Men of Integrity' kind of works for both Woolsey and Caldwell (they're both used to having people quesion their motives, and having to carry on regardless) even if it is a little clunky. I think it depends entirely on what you think the essence of the story is - Woolsey, finding his way, or the two of them finding common ground. Also, I still have a giant crush on Woolsey.
And finally, excerpts of
ana_grrl's lovely commentary:Okay, onto your story (I love the 'ship name 'woolwell', I was confused at first, thinking of the clothing brand Woolrich).
The whole 'Caldwell trying to have good relationships with Atlantis command staff' bit makes me smile because it's true, and also, I think he does it to get some. Go Caldwell! It also cracks me up that it's canon that Woolsey feels most comfortable in a suit. I like the way you work this in.
This sounds very Woolsey to me: "...but the intergalactic voyage left him with a surplus of time that he filled in the rather fruitless exercise of cataloguing all the ways in which Caldwell interests him."
Also: smooth, Woolsey! "Would you care to join me for dinner tonight? I would appreciate the opportunity to get to know you better."
I like the point about Woolsey not always making the best first impression. It intersects nicely with the way that Caldwell doesn't exactly do so either. It's a good way to let the reader start to see the overlaps in the way they lead and the way the interact with others.
This:
"Besides," Caldwell continues, "if there's one thing I've learned about Atlantis, it's that it teaches you to be flexible." He lifts his head, quirks an eyebrow and says, "I'm looking forward to seeing what the place does with you."
Woolsey chokes on his mouthful of wine and ends up dabbing at his mouth with a corner of tablecloth, determined to save at least one of his silk shirts from ruin, although if the cuffs are any indication, this will be a losing battle.
Woolsey - already beginning to suspect that 1) Atlantis is a bit of perv 2) So are a lot of the people station there.
Here I think there's a little POV slippage: tracing the delicate shell of Woolsey's ear. I can't quite imagine Woolsey thinking of his own ear as a delicate shell.
fumbling with Woolsey's ridiculously complicated belt. -- And I bet Caldwell kind of likes the complication of it!
I like the recognition, here of the implications for this, and also the reminder that Woolsey is a man with plans and isn't exactly retiring: Apparently, he is Caldwell's choice, and Woolsey is well aware of what it means that Caldwell is willing to eschew his belief in the sanctity of rules in order to be with him here and now. Woolsey can't help but be humbled. Not that that translates to him being too chivalrous. Woolsey has plans for this man.
then Caldwell dresses with military efficiency -- Something tells me that Woolsey dresses no less efficiently, if efficiently in different ways! Also, I think the jealousy and darkness he feels re: how many times as Caldwell done this works really well - the pettiness of it, and Woolsey's recognition of how ridiculous that pettiness is (because he is self-aware enough to be critical of his own flaws).
I like the way Caldwell walks out at the end - it works for me. And I like the little bit of hope and playfulness/happiness that you have the end. I think the end works very well! You really have a knack for taking pairings that seem unlikely and making them work! I enjoyed reading this - thank you for sending it to me! I hope the comments are somewhat useful.
ariadne83, let me know if there's anything you'd like to add to this post. :)
