Bob, Gen, Gron, Het, and Slash

[lunabee34]

Based on conversations I've been having with you guys after Writercon, I wonder if it might be useful to separate out the question of definitions from some of the other things we've been talking about. I'd be interested to see the range of definitions for these terms laid out clearly.

So, pretend this is Twitter. In 140 characters or less for each, Tweet me your definitions of bob, gen, gron, het, and slash (and any other words you regularly use to label your stories according to sexual or romantic content).

Comments

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

I am coming in so late, but:

Gen - a story with no sexual/romantic situations. Pairings within the story are only mentioned haphazardly and have no bearing on the story what so ever. Such pairings are usually canon, but not always.

Het - a story with at least a partial focus on a sexual/romantic relationship, involving a man and a woman. Threesomes/moresomes accepted.

Slash - a story with at least a partial focus on a sexual/romantic relationship, involving a man and a man. Threesomes/moresomes accepted.

Femslash - a story with at least a partial focus on a sexual/romantic relationship, involving a woman and a woman. Threesomes/moresomes accepted.

Femslash and slash to me are interchangeable, much as gay and lesbian are interchangeable.

I have also used slash to denote the sexual/romantic relationship regardless of the gender of the participants involved, or their number. I don't tend to use it frequently that way, though I wish people did. Right now, slash does still mean 'gay', whether it's male or female, in the circles of fandom I travel.

I find labels like bob and gron to be confusing and not something I use regularly, so I'll refrain from commenting on them here.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

What to with the threesomes and moresomes, particularly when both genders are represented in the sexual encounter, is a tough one to fit neatly into any single category. If you wrote Elizabeth/John/Rodney, what would you call that? *is curious*

Femslash and slash to me are interchangeable

Me too.

I have also used slash to denote the sexual/romantic relationship regardless of the gender of the participants involved, or their number.

Do you mean to simply refer to the punctuation mark between the names of the pairing?

Faux-Twitter

[executrix.livejournal.com]

Like the lillies of the field, I tweet not but, here goes (great question!)

BOB (aka GRON): Contains explicit sex, in the context of a broader plot
GEN: All-ages-safe story--no explicit sex; any romance is incidental to a broader plot
HET: F/M romance, explicit sex, or both, are foregrounded in the story
SLASH: M/M or F/F romance, explicit sex, or both, are foregrounded in the story (or, SLASH--same definition but limited to M/M; FEMSLASH: F/F romance...(you know the drill)
Idiosyncratic:
MIXED: Romance and/or explicit sex are foregrounded, and either the same character has both M and F partners, or M/M, F/M, F/F involving *different* characters occur in the same story

Re: Faux-Twitter

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

MIXED

So there's the one-word descriptor I was asking Ladycat about abovethread.

[mofic.livejournal.com]

I've never heard of "bob" or "gron."

To me slash means "fanfiction in which two male characters who are depicted in the source text as heterosexual (or whose sexuality is not depicted) are shown in the story to have a romantic and/or sexual connection." I do accept that others have broader definitions but I think mine is the classic one.

I would define het as "fanfiction which focuses on a romantic and/or sexual relationship between a heterosexual couple."

I would define gen as "fanfiction that has no romantic or sexual focus and in which there is no description of sexual activities."

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

On Bob and Gron (http://lunabee34.livejournal.com/228437.html?thread=3365461#t3365461)

I think mine is the classic one

I would agree. :)

[friendshipper.livejournal.com]

The definitions that I used for years, before realizing that fandom didn't do likewise, were:

Gen- Fanfic that does not introduce new romantic relationships.
Slash- Fanfic about non-canon romantic relationships between same-sex partners.
Het- Fanfic about non-canon romantic relationships between opposite-sex partners.

I tended to think of the broader category "romance" covering stories dealing explicitly with canon relationships, but it overlapped with gen quite a bit, depending on the level of foregrounding and explicitness.

Now it's more like:

Gen- Stories that don't introduce new romantic relationships or foreground the ones that are already there.
Slash- Stories in which an m/m or f/f relationship is foregrounded or introduced.
Het- Stories in which an m/f relationship is foregrounded or introduced.

or:

Gen- Stories that don't ship characters or foreground romance (even if relationships are peripherally present)
Slash- Stories that foreground m/m or f/f pairings or perceptibly ship them
Het- Stories that foreground f/m pairings or perceptibly ship them

One thing that I agreed with in the "what is gen?" debates in queerlygen (though I don't think I chimed in over there) is that it's very difficult (though not, I think, impossible) to introduce a new romantic pairing between two characters without some level of foregrounding and/or shipping being apparent to the reader, if only because the reader wonders how the characters got together. I don't really use the "ship" definition in general because it's highly subjective, though.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Isn't it so interesting that the way that we define terms and just interact with fandom in general evolves over the duration of our involvement.

it's very difficult (though not, I think, impossible) to introduce a new romantic pairing between two characters without some level of foregrounding and/or shipping being apparent to the reader, if only because the reader wonders how the characters got together.

*nods*

And a lot of people come to the table for that anyway. The journey to the relationship is infinitely more interesting to a lot of fans than what the couple does once they're there.

[havocthecat]

Uh. What are Bob and Gron, then? This may be some weird boyslash thing that's not weird to boyslashers, but that I don't get.

[executrix.livejournal.com]

hi, havocthecat! Now I'm seeing "Bob" and "gr0n" described as different phenomena, but it (or they) comes from a perceived need to have some way to describe a story that might be called a gen story except that it has romance, or has explicit sex scenes, or both. "gr0n" is a cross between the terms "gen" and "pr0n," and I think "Bob" was just chosen at random.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

*nods*

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

So, for example, someone might label a story Bob in which Sam Carter has sex with an OC in a bar. The sex is explicit, but it only occupies about a paragraph of the piece. It isn't the focus of the story but is really only another example of the way in which she is falling apart after Daniel's death. The focus of the story is the fractured team and how they deal with Daniel's loss.

I personally would never call a story any variety of gen (Bob or gron or otherwise) in which Sam Carter has sex with Teal'c because even if that encounter is brief, even if it isn't explicitly rendered, even if it is not the focus of the fic,because of who they are and what they canonically mean to each other I cannot imagine that encounter not informing Sam's characterization and choices and behavior for well beyond the sexual encounter.

Does that make sense?

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

These are the definitions I use when describing my own fic:

Gen: A story not focusing on romantic pairings, and containing no sex. Romantic pairings may appear if they are not the focus of the fic.
Grön: Porny gen. A story which might involve sex, but is not focused on romantic pairings. (Term coined by glossing.)
Femslash: A story containing an f/f pairing explicitly established as a romantic couple or who have sex in the course of the story.
Het: A story containing a heterosexual pairing explicitly established as a romantic couple or who have sex in the course of the story.
Boyslash: A story containing an m/m pairing explicitly established as a romantic couple or who have sex in the course of the story.
Friendship: A story focusing on the non-romantic relationship between two characters. Because of subtext, authorial intent is the only real way of distinguishing this genre from the following two. Technically, a subcategory of gen, which is why all my friendship fics can also be found filed under that genre.
Pre-femslash: A story containing an f/f pairing which, while not explicitly established as romantic, can be seen as sexual in nature, particularly if you squint really, really hard.
Pre-het: A story containing a heterosexual pairing which, while not explicitly established as romantic, can be seen as sexual in nature, particularly if you squint really, really hard.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Boyslash as a descriptor is always jarring to me. I prefer m/m I think because it doesn't carry connotations of age. But that's just me.

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

I use "m/m" much more often than "boyslash."

"Boyslash" carries connotations, but for me they're not about age, exactly. (Nor are they always unintended.)

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

I should add that a story is often both het and one or both of the varieties of slash.

[gogollescent.livejournal.com]

I don't know what bob is but clearly I have to write at least one because, omg, bob!

...:D

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

On Bob and Gron (http://lunabee34.livejournal.com/228437.html?thread=3365461#t3365461)

I wholeheartedly endorse any kind of writing you want to do. Ever.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I think I'll take a cue from friendshipper and Faux!Tweet my evolving understanding of these terms.

Newbie fangirl:

Slash: fic with same-sex pairings regardless of canonicity and gender
Het: fic with heterosexual pairings regardless of canonicity
Gen: fic with no sexual content

Less!Newbie fangirl
Slash: fic that explores same-sex sexuality or attraction regardless of canonicity and gender;
Het: fic that explores same-sex sexuality or attraction regardless of canonicity
Gen: fic which sexual situations, including attraction and desire, are given little (but necessarily no) attention; may include sexual material if that material is not the focus of the story

I never use slash and het when I label my own fic. I just put the pairing in the header and a rating. The only label I use consistently for my own fic and for the fic that I rec is gen. And my understanding of gen has evolved to include the idea of attraction and desire. If I write a drabble about John Winchester after marries death, how could that drabble possibly be bereft of his heterosexual desire for her and his despair at the loss of a woman he loves?

I don't ever think to use bob or gron.

After talking with alixtii in another post, I think that I may need to revise my personal definitions yet again to include the sense of community they often imply.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

I don't have the energy to think about actual definitions. I never use or think about those definition except in discussion posts about them anyway. XD

But I did want to say that bitextual is used in some areas (frex, I posted my Remix to hp_bitextual because it had Ginny/Luna and Ginny/Harry) to mean fic that has both het and slash (either separately or together).

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes! Bitextual. I had forgotten that term. I like that one.

[spikedluv]

Slash: fic that includes a romantic relationship between two same sex partners (either male or female), whether that relationship is canon or not.

I've never understood the need to differentiate between a canon gay/lesbian pairing and a non-canon one. And if you're writing a canon gay pairing and you can't call it slash, what do you call it? Since the term originated from the '/' between the names, it seems like it would cover all same sex pairings equally. Of course it came about because people were writing non-canon gay pairings -- there are bloody few canon gay pairings even now -- so I find that to be a less than compelling reason for the term to be limited.

Het: fic that includes a romantic relationship between a man and a woman, whether that relationship is canon or not.

Caveat: Romantic relationship does not mean that they have to have down and dirty sex in the fic (thought it's a bonus *g*), but merely that they have to be in a relationship. PG slash is still slash, as PG het is still het.

Gen: fic that does not focus on any romantic pairing, though it may (very briefly and very generally) be alluded to in the fic.

I didn't know what bob or gron meant until reading the comments here and I don't think I'll be using those terms or suggesting them to others.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I agree with you that romantic relationship doesn't mean explicit sex. I get so irritated with fic that sacrifices story for sex.

[lyr]

I don't use gron or bob as labels for my work. I do use het, slash, and gen, though. Gen= contains no material that develops any kind of romantic relationships; if some already exist, they remain unadvanced and undiscussed. Het= whatever else happens in the story, it does advance and develop a romantic relationship between members of the opposite gender (transgender and genderswap fiction complicates the definition of opposite gender somewhat). Slash= just as het, but with same sex partners.