lunabee34

Epiphanies brought on by the Nineties Weekend we listened to on the way home from Atlanta:

Tyrion Lannister is the likely pen behind the lyrics of "Where Do You Go?" [My Lovely]

Enrique Iglesias is not in fact singing, "Te quiero no burrito," but, "Te quiero amor mio," which makes much more sense.

Who wants to talk about fannish stuff? I'm up for talk about any of the following: Walking Dead, Big Bang Theory, Penny Dreadful, Game of Thrones, Gateverse, Buffyverse, Star Trek, etc!

Crossposts: http://lunabee34.livejournal.com/430556.html

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

zulu

I'm rewatching Buffy, slowly, while under a baby. Some things really hold up--the concepts, the emotional beats--but some things less so. I know Whedon's praised to the skies for his dialogue, but I find it a bit clunkier this time through. In mid season 2, and "Lie To Me" is still a really strong ep. Spike is a great villain at this point!

From:

lunabee34

I really like "Lie to Me." That speech Giles gives at the end is one of my favorites of the whole series. And I like the way that thread runs through the whole show because in many ways, it's about Buffy having her illusions shattered until there are no lies at all for her to cling to, and then she becomes this hardened, numbed person who has to learn how to trust and believe and have faith (or Faith LOL) again.

Spike is a great villain. He and the Mayor and Glory are my favorite big bads from BtVS and really from Angel too.

From:

intrigueing

I've been getting a whole lot into Star Trek: reading a lot of older fanfic and discussing it with a pen pal.

One of the things we brought up was that surely, even if Kirk was actually completely 100% heterosexual and not in love with Spock at all, he'd still sleep with Spock to save his life in Pon Farr right? There's absolutely no way he would refuse, if they couldn't get Spock to Vulcan in time. And he'd never, ever tell a subordinate to do it instead. Yet incredibly, no one has ever written a fic about this scenario! No one! I was boggled.

Though I then started thinking about all the myriad cool different other ways Pon Farr has been done in fanfic, and about the evolutionary reasons for why Vulcans would have such a weird mating cycle...

From:

lunabee34

Are you sure? I was absolutely sure that was part and parcel of the whole Pon Farr phenomenon, that Kirk has to have sex with Spock in a fuck or die scenario (maybe this is only in Trek Reboot instead of appearing in TOS fic from way back; older Trek fic is full of smarm and We're Not Gay which I absolutely loathe (mostly), so I could see it not appearing there).

I think it's really cool that Pon Farr is one of those things that totally got into the fannish lexicon to the degree that there were Pon Farr SGA comms and etc.

From:

intrigueing

No no no, you see, in all those fics, Kirk and Spock conveniently fall in love with each other afterwards, or has always been secretly attracted to Spock. No fic where he does it just because, you know, saving his friend's life, with no convenient revelation of romantic feelings afterwards. But I don't read much reboot fic, so maybe it's happened there?

I'm sure that all the out-of-control-sex tropes (sex pollen, ABO, etc) stem directly from Pon Farr. I mean really, fanfic writers could not invent a more perfect fanfic-fodder if they tried... :)

From:

lunabee34

Ah, okay. I gotcha now. Yeah, I've never seen one where they didn't get together either. I know SGA did some subversion of the sex pollen trope where McShep did not get together afterwards but I don't know of a Trek one.

I think the original Trek writers knew exactly what they were doing with the invention of that one too. Maybe they meant in a het kinky way instead of the slashy way it's usually employed, but they knew what they were doing. LOL

From:

intrigueing

Also, any excuse to make Spock act emotional and OOC, because those make for the most tantalizing promos, of course!

From:

feldman

I'm of the school that, like Kirk Douglass in Spartacus, they knew they were slinging hot gay hash right from the grill (Theodore Sturgeon and the cast and crew on Amok Time). Pure fan service.

As for the slashfic being traditionally tied to romance for this pair, I think it's more of a generational thing.

A few generations after sex was decoupled from hetero marriage, we're now better able to explore the fine grain differences between sex, love and friendship.

Also, TOS Kirk always struck me as the kind of guy who falls at least in like before he falls into bed, and he's already at least socially smitten with Spock already.

From:

lunabee34

These are all very good points.

We know TOS Kirk will move heaven and hell for Spock because we get to watch him do it. LOL

I don't know where Kirk gets such a reputation for being a ladies man because he really isn't. I mean, the ladies clearly love him and he's attractive and charismatic, but he's not indiscriminately falling into bed with people or screwing his way across the multi-verse.

From:

archersangel

the whole "sex pollen" could be tied into an TOS episode called this side of paradise where there was some sort of funky plant pollen that make people just want to lounge around all day & do nothing. a woman who had a crush on spock (someone he knew years before) makes sure he gets dosed and it's very implied that they had sex.

From:

intrigueing

Oh right there's that one too! Maybe I should just say Star Trek TOS in general is the root of all fanfic porn tropes... :)

From:

lunabee34

That's such a good episode, and you're totally right that that's a better sex pollen analogue.

From:

katarik

I am watching Buffy for the very first time and OMG WILLOW YOU ARE THE BESTEST. The Buffy and Willow friendship is THE BEST THING.

(I also wholeheartedly adore Cordelia and Willow slowly becoming friends and am really not looking forward to her inevitable downfall.)

From:

lunabee34

Oh how much fun to be watching the show for the first time! Yay!

I am not a fan of Willow's story arc as a whole, but I do love her in these early seasons. She's such a good friend and a wonderful brainiac.

I adore Cordelia. *smishes her* She is so wonderfully blunt, and she has absolutely no reason to hang out with and help "those losers" and yet she does, again and again. Love her.

From:

katarik

She is the cuuuuuuuutest I just want to hug her and feed her and applaud her learning herself and her spine and what makes her happy.

Cordelia is WONDERFUL. I really want her to take classes that actually challenge her, and I want her to do something about the fact that the life her parents planned for her is a boring trap as far as she's concerned. I just. My bored, angry darling.

From:

lunabee34

I think you are going to both very much like and very much be frustrated by the way Cordelia's story arc develops.

I think bored, angry darling should go on an icon of Cordelia.

From:

katarik

Having been on the internet for a decade, I know most of what comes to pass with her, to my happiness and frustration, indeed.

Cordelia Chase is basically modern proof that The Feminist Mystique still has its place. Among bored, angry, privileged White girls who deserve better than the lot their parents want for them, and for everyone around them who deserves better than to put up with their tempers.

(my baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaby ilher)