[insert wittiness here]

[lunabee34]

Lots of great fun on my last post about fic bunnies. So far we've got some pretty interesting Dawn and Glory meta going on, not to mention the long lost connection between BtVS and The Golden Girls. Also, pretty much everybody seems to be lamenting the lack of awesome Trek fic.

20 Things You Didn't Know About Saffron by hopefulnebula Written in list form, this is a very engaging look at what has formed the inimitable YoSaffBridge.

Little Red Riding Simon and the Big Bad Jayne by lyrstzha This is so wonderfully silly. Read! Read!

Detente, janissa11's followup to the wonderful "Tussle." Last time it hurt. This time it doesn’t, but he hurts anyway, wishes Jayne would thump him a couple of times just to make the overcoat match the underdrawers.


Also, I have questions prompted by mosca's recent post on the Firefly fandom and what she perceives as her place in it.

How do you guys feel about the fandoms you are currently involved with? Is fandom just one never-ending love affair for you? Are you really dissatisfied? Stuff you really wish was different? Happy as a lark? In other words, how do you read the litmus test on the current state of your fandoms?

I think I am in a rather unique position in that my fannish experience has been pretty much wholeheartedly positive. I've been met with kindness and overwhelming generosity at every turn. I've managed to avoid wank and kerfluffleage, although Lord knows I'm surprised as hell at that given club_joss. I wish I was able to turn out more fic as I write like a turtle if at all, and I wish my Buffy/Faith piece had gotten more feedback, but that's it (almost forgot more participation in club_joss; that might even be my primary wish). Other than that, I am utterly happy in fandom. I feel like I've been accepted and that I have a contribution to make. What about you guys?

Comments

[thelastgoodname.livejournal.com]

Didn't anyone tell you? F/F never gets any feedback (she said sagely).

My fannish experience (in all my fandoms) is much like my experience of picking up after my dog: I do it because I love my dog, but damn is it nasty. The pleasure of having a dog usually outweighs the smell (and the texture and the occasional diarrhea all over the porch and I haven't even mentioned the vomit), but sometimes I wonder. Also, some people have short-haired dogs with strong constitutions; I have a long-haired dog with a weak stomach: things can get really gross.

That is to say (and quoting one of my first fandoms): "you take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life."

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

My fannish experience (in all my fandoms) is much like my experience of picking up after my dog: I do it because I love my dog, but damn is it nasty.

Did you feel that way even when you were a n00b? 'Cause I'm wondering if fandom's like a marriage. Will I be hit with the seven-year itch here in a bit, if you know what I mean? LOL

I have to say I don't ever feel like that about fandom. I have issues over integrating virtual time into real life time and I have had one or two isolated incidents with people that I didn't get along with, but that's it. Overall, fandom is a huge source of joy in my life.

[thelastgoodname.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I did, but the thing is: I have a dog (am a fan) because I love dogs (fandom) in general, and I love my dog (any of my canons) in particular more than any other dog (canon) in the world; she's my perfect dog (canon), so I'm perfectly willing to put up with the realities of having a dog (fandom), because my dog makes me kind of spastically happy. (To extend the analogy even further: there are no dog parks where I live. This is much like trying to find f/f in SGA: it doesn't work, and clearly, they don't want my kind here. So I let my dog run around off-leash where I shouldn't, and I write stories that no one will read. But I will persevere, or else I will move to a place that does want me.)

It's not that I don't love (my) fandom(s), and it's not that I'm not happy with where I am (both in my specific fandoms and in fandom in general) — although I will point out that your Buffy/Faith got more feedback than 98% of the Buffy/Faith I've ever read (it was also vastly better than 98% of the Buffy/Faith I've read, but that doesn't really seem to have much to do with it) — it's that there are inherent problems in fandom as in real life, and they mitigate the ideal pleasure that might be had.

I think that was part of the backdrop to mosca's post: the real problem with fandom is that it's inhabited with fans. That is, there are actual people out there on the other end of the etherline, and they have their own problems and ideas and limits and sometimes those problems and ideas and limits run up against our own problems and ideas and limits.

In my perfect world, all the Spike/Xander would be replaced with Faith/Willow (with lots of nice realistic lesbian sex), and there would never be any hurt feelings or irritability or nastiness between fans, and everyone would offer generous, honest, and constructive feedback on everything.

But fandom is not my perfect world; it's got it's own dog shit, even in the middle of that gorgeous springtime walk up the California coast at sunset after a storm.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Everything you've said here makes a lot of sense. And although I haven't really stepped in or had to clean up any of the dog shit, I have looked down the street and seen my neighbors doing so, so I can get where you're coming from.

[hopefulnebula]

*squee*

My first ever rec! :D

<3

*thud*

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

And it's well deserved. LOL

[executrix.livejournal.com]

I've felt kind of marginal in both the fandoms I've been in, but one thing about reading metafandom and fanthropology is it gives one the sense that It's Wank's World, We Just Get to Live In It.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

This is true. Wank, It's Out There. LOL

What made you feel marginal, if you don't mind elaborating?

[executrix.livejournal.com]

Like quite a few people in fandom, I'm very shy, so there's a whole "they're not going to like me, so why say anything?" vibe on top of quite genuinely seeing different things in both source texts than most people do. And, as I've said, the only problem with holding the "I write slash because I'm interested in what it's like to be gay in that environment" convention in a phone booth is that it's hard to find a phone booth these days. My core genre is "drawing-room comedy," which is not really the Q-Study Account that most people look for in Blakes7, either.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I would never have pegged you for a shy one, but I guess that's really because words don't body language, and it's hard to imbue a post with the essence of shyness.

I for one am very glad you have a different perspective on fandom. It makes reading your pieces so refreshing.

[executrix.livejournal.com]

I am in fact tall, and I like high heels, but I'm pretty good at "I'll just cower over here, just look straight through me" body language so I suspect that I come across as medium-height and wide instead of tall and wide. I try to tell myself that there is no such thing as a really large mouse so I should claim my space, but it doesn't always work.

One of the NotCapade "panels" is "why meta anyway?" and I adore the fact that there are so many and such varied perspectives and I love to hear them. But there's a temperament, which is not entirely absent in fandom, that likes to see all the Lego sheep neatly lined up on the mountain. Indeed not for nothing is the Blakean faction of B7 fandom known as "The Blake Police."

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I have seen this Notcapade mentioned, but do not know what it is. What is it?

Say, Kids, Let's Put on the Show Right Here!

[executrix.livejournal.com]

It's cereta's idea--Escapade (the West Coast slashcon) was this weekend, and like every con there was a lot of "oh, boo, why can't I be there?" sentiment. So cereta suggested posting about the kind of things we'd be talking about if we were at the con. A lot of the posts are linked at metafandom, and you can hopscotch to some of the others from there.

Re: Say, Kids, Let's Put on the Show Right Here!

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

What a great idea. I have seen some of those linked on Metafandom and didn't know what was up. Thanks for the info.

OMG We Drank SOOO Much Tequila

[executrix.livejournal.com]

It truly is. I love the "all the slash, none of the airfare" icon.

There really should be a Notcapade conrep, although since every conrep I've ever seen features a mile-by-mile account of the trip there and its numerous detours, it would probably start with a rundown of every skip in the transmission process.

[lyr]

Oh, hey! Thanks for the rec!

On the topic of fandom, I'd have to say that I'm pretty happy in all of mine. I'm very multi-fannish, so you'd think I'd simply have extra vectors for wank to attack me, but it really hasn't worked out like that. Mostly people have been really nice and wonderfully complimentary. I've been aware of the riptides of wank in my fandoms on several occasions, but my violent allergy to anything which even smells faintly of melodrama has always warned me in time to get well clear of it. I follow a firm policy of never reading or talking about any sort of wank, and this has always worked out well for me. If pressed, I simply play dumb blonde and say "Wank? What wank? Sorry, I have to be somewhere else right now. Bye!"

I was somewhat surprised to read that thread over at mosca's, because I had no idea that anyone I know felt marginalized. It may be just egocentricism on my part---I remain blissfully convinced that all my neighborhoods in fandom are the places to be---but I've never felt that way myself, even when I was in rare niches or writing things I didn't really expect would find much of an audience (Righteousness, for example).

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

It was well deserved. :)

I'm like you. I've had such a positive experience in fandom, that it always surprises me when people say they don't. I was particularly thrown aback by that post of mosca's myself, mostly because I admire her writing so much and it shocked me that she feels alienated from the fandom. And ana_grrl commented that she feels much the same way. I hate that. I want everyone to have joyful!joyful fandom times. LOL

[nasty-shrew.livejournal.com]

I love my Buffy fandom. I've met an endless list of wonderful people in this fandom (yourself included, sweetie) and the encouragement I've got from the writers is invaluable. There also is an unusual amount of quality writing for a fandom that technically 'died' at the end of the series :)
The only thing I regret about my involvement in fandom is that the vast majority of people who read my stuff are Spike/Xander shippers (understandably, as all of my earlier work revolved around this pairing and I still adore the ship and play around in it). But I also have branched out to other pairings/characters in the fandom, but these pieces recieve almost no feedback so I'm never sure whether the story is just 'meh' or if my readers just aren't interested because it isn't their ship. Which makes me a little (more) neurotic :)

I'm also getting into writing in the Potter fandom (snapeslashomg) but I'm not really familiar with the writers, not in on the 'in jokes' and I only read the cream of the crop, so I'm not confronted with the mounds of dross people talk about.

Also have to admit some serious lurking in the Smallville fandom. The show is laughable, but the fanfic. God, the FANFIC. *spazzyglee*. For some inexplicable reason, lots of the Clark/Lex fiction in this fandom is of stunning quality. Everything from intricate, beautiful, novel length studies in relationships to plotty porn that takes hawt to a new level. Intrigue, chess, doomed romances and BALD MEN. Yay! ... can you tell I'm enamoured? expect some Super!Slash in the near future *omgfandombetrayal*.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

so I'm never sure whether the story is just 'meh' or if my readers just aren't interested because it isn't their ship.

Absolutely! The core base of club_joss is Spander-centric, some of whom I know won't read outside that pairing. So I sometimes get very little commentary on weeks when we're not doing slash. I wish that people would be a little more willing at times to step outside their comfort zone. In fact, that's what I envision club_joss being *for*--to help us find fic we wouldn't normally read and to challenge us to new understandings of how fic can be written and what it can accomplish. That being said, over half of my flist is either people I know in RL who don't read fic or people that don't really use lj frequently. The ones who are left are pretty good at reading outside their boxes, so I feel like my hardcore peeps are at least willing to take a look at what I have to write. LOL

these pieces recieve almost no feedback

I'm feeling ya. When I went from the amount of feedback I was getting on "Shadowlands" to the amount of feedback I got on my Buffy/Faith, it was rather disheartening. I don't wanna be one of those Whiny Whinersons who's all, "Review my story, dammit! For I deserve lauds. And cookies" LOL But that story I poured my heart into, and I thought it would get a wider reception. The feedback it did get was utterly glorious and on the whole more thoughtful than the feedback I've gotten on other pieces, so that was good.

I'm so glad to have met you as well, Ms. Shrew. You are such a brilliant writer, much more accomplished than I. That's why I dragged you into teh Love Nest, hoping some of your shiny would rub off on me. LOL

If you write Clark/Lex I will so read it.

[gloss]

my fannish experience has been pretty much wholeheartedly positive
YAY for you! Of course, a lot of that has to do with who *you* are and how thoughtful and kind you are.

Are you really dissatisfied? Stuff you really wish was different?
Yes! And yes!
But it's all about what one can control and everything else you just have to let go, yes? It's nice, lately, to pull back and solely concentrate on what's joyful about fandom.

I wish my Buffy/Faith piece had gotten more feedback
*cries* It's a fantastic piece, and you should be *very* proud of it. But this fandom (and here's one of the things I can't control but wish I could) is *so* ship- and genre-segregated.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Of course, a lot of that has to do with who *you* are and how thoughtful and kind you are.

Awwwwww *blushes*

But it's all about what one can control and everything else you just have to let go, yes?

This is true, and something I have a hard time with. I'm such a control freak, and it kills me when I can't make things do the way I want. LOL If you discover the secret, let me know. :)

It's a fantastic piece, and you should be *very* proud of it.

Thank you so much. You are one of the writers I most admire, and praise from you is high praise to me, indeed.

But this fandom (and here's one of the things I can't control but wish I could) is *so* ship- and genre-segregated.

*nods*

See my comment above to nasty_shrew

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

One thing I find interesting is that I often feel like *no one* really feels like they're a part of "fandom" -- that we all find clusters of people who make sense to us and just sort of stare at the rest of "fandom," sometimes wandering by when fic or meta is recommended to us.

Anyway. Um. I don't particularly feel all that involved in fandom as of late because my job has meant I don't have the time/energy to even fully engage with my flist nevermind anything outside of that. I've always felt more like I'm watching my fandoms than really being a part of them, though, 'cause I've never been all that prolific producing fic or meta or anything, so I'm not all that widely read.

Stuff I wish were different? With fandom as with everything else I wish people were more thoughtful. I, as mentioned previously, wish there was some storage system of all the good conversations on episodes/themes/etc. so newbies could be easily hooked up. I also wish it were easier to hook people up with the stuff they wanna read (and vice versa), and as a corollary to that I wish there were more good stuff out there (even though I don't have time to read the stuff I've already found, plus obviously mileages vary as I've been underwhelmed by plenty of stuff I've seen recced).

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

One thing I find interesting is that I often feel like *no one* really feels like they're a part of "fandom" -- that we all find clusters of people who make sense to us and just sort of stare at the rest of "fandom," sometimes wandering by when fic or meta is recommended to us.

See, that kinda thinking never occured to me until I read mosca's post. I mean, I have the sense that fandom is big and lots of it is passing me by or just not accessible to me because of time constraints or not knowing where to go, etc; in other words, the notion that I am only involved in one corner of it. But I feel like I belong where I am. Most of the people who are on my flist I feel like they are friends in the RL sense of the word, or on the way to becoming friends. I can see, though, how that might change if I was really high profile and didn't know many of the people that friended my journal; that might make me feel less cosy.

Lately, I'm starting to feel like you say you are now, watching fandom go by. If I'm actually going to work on my dissertation, I truly don't have time to write fanfic. And that makes me sad. I really enjoy participating in fandom in that way, and I hate that it's been so long since I've written anything and that I don't really forsee myself writing anything new for some time.

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

I mean, I have the sense that fandom is big and lots of it is passing me by or just not accessible to me because of time constraints or not knowing where to go, etc; in other words, the notion that I am only involved in one corner of it.

Well that's sort of what I meant.

But I feel like I belong where I am.

That, too. I mean, I think a lot of people don't really feel at home in what they see as the dominant culture in a particular fandom, but I think a lot of us have found clusters of people with whom we feel at home, even if it frustrates us that the ways of our niche do not seem to be the prevailing ways of the fandom at large.

I can see, though, how that might change if I was really high profile and didn't know many of the people that friended my journal; that might make me feel less cosy.

Oh, see I would have no problem with that. There are a number of people I don't know who have my journal friended and I'm not bothered by that, and I'm always flattered when people friend me though I feel a touch bad when I don't friend them back. I sometimes feel like I should be producing more stuff worth reading, but that's as much a function of my own self as it is a function of having an audience.

[executrix.livejournal.com]

Mosca really brought out the whole "I'm nobody! Who are you? Are you nobody too?" feeling about fandom. But it doesn't matter how many Cordettes a BNF has, she's still allowed to be lonely (sometimes even lonely by herself) and have Layers.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I know, I know. And she can be and does. I just had this knee jerk reaction of surprise. And then sadness, because I want all the people I admire to be happy. :)