This is what it sounds like when Lorraine whines; it apparently involves sentence fragments

[lunabee34]

I am a little disappointed.

And a little annoyed.

In no small part at myself, but also at fandom at large.

And so I come to you, dear friends who are wiser than me, for advice.

I dropped the ball on the last sga_talk discussion. This whole new assistant professor, teaching five classes, QEP, SACS, why yes you have to finish your Ph.D. right now or we won't give you tenure gig is a little exhausting. And stressing. And I forgot to do a reminder post for this last discussion. And I forgot to drum up participation once I saw that I was, again, the only commenter. And I forgot to assign a new piece to read for the 1st of September.

So, yes. Culpability, I own you.

But here's the thing, y'all. Here's the thing.

I think sga_talk is awesome for a lot of reasons. I love to write. I am a writer. I become a better writer when I talk with other people about writing. And I like having a structured place to do this. I love to read. I am a reader. I have made reading and nattering on about it to other people my life's profession. I love literary analysis of fanfic. I also love reading outside of my comfort zone. I have so little time to hunt for fic now that I pretty much exclusively read the flist or large challenges like Big Bang. I find the good stuff through sga_talk that I would never find otherwise. I also like to meet people and I have met through sga_talk some really cool people with interesting ideas about SGA and writing and fandom. I think sga_talk is poised to be a vital segment of fandom.

And yet, it saddens me that I have to beg and grovel for participation in what other fans say over and over again that they want.

Believe me when I say that I understand there are obstacles to participating in a comm of this nature. RL is in the way; you have no time to read this week; you hate the featured pairing; you vowed never to read amnesia fic again; you're too wrapped up in Big Bang. All valid reasons not to participate.

But a significant portion of fandom says over and over again that it wants constructive criticism. A significant portion of fandom says over and over again that it thinks of fanfic as having the same kind of value and interest as published works and that it wants literary analysis of fannish works. And yet, in a comm with 69 members, I can count on only four other people besides myself and lyrstzha to regularly comment.

So what am I doing wrong? What am I not getting?

And while I am showing my ass, as we say in the South, let me also make this complaint. Why oh why is it that we fans criticize again and again the source material for giving short shrift to women and fanfic for doing the same; why is it that we lament the representation of women and of queer female relationships both in our source texts and in the fannish works we create but when it comes time to read and talk about femslash, everybody disappears? Even in its honeymoon phase when participation in sga_talk was at its highest, the femslash selections received the fewest comments. This makes me angry, particularly since there is an AWESOME and truly unique femslash fic sitting in sga_talk right now that no one but myself has commented on.

I am having a really hard time reconciling what I think I hear fandom say that it wants and needs and what fandom actually ends up doing.

So, help me, y'all. I think sga_talk can be an amazing community, but I don't know how to get it to that point. What can I do (besides, oh, getting my head out of my ass and doing my modly duties like I'm supposed to; *is embarrassed*)? What are your suggestions?

Comments

Also a Pony and a Plastic Rocket

[executrix.livejournal.com]

Well y'know, people say they're gonna lose 20 pounds too...

And fandom is very far from monolithic. The fans who are angry about the lack of representation of women, or the quality of representation, aren't necessarily the ones who are in the slash for the Two Hot Guys and No Icky Girlparts.

Re: Also a Pony and a Plastic Rocket

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I know. I know.

And it's not that I take it personally. Or maybe not entirely that I take it personally. LOL

It's just that I hate the unrealized potential of this comm. I hate knowing what it *could* be and seeing what it is and not knowing what to do to bridge the gap.

Part of it's me. If I was a BNF or the kind of writer who gets 3 pages of comments, then the comm would be more successful on my cred alone. Or if I could get one or two BNFs to regularly participate and pimp on their journals. The fourish regular participants are pretty high profile, though, so maybe I'm just talking out of my ass again.

I think my period is not helping my annoyance with this issue.

Re: Also a Pony and a Plastic Rocket

[executrix.livejournal.com]

If I was a BNF or the kind of writer who gets 3 pages of comments, then the comm would be more successful on my cred alone.

Well, maybe, maybe not--if you were S1 Cordelia, relying on the Litcrit Stylings of Harmony wouldn't get you very far.

Re: Also a Pony and a Plastic Rocket

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Like, I totally don't get what they're doing.

Frottage is like, some kind of cheese.

Right?

Re: Also a Pony and a Plastic Rocket

[executrix.livejournal.com]

Ahahahaha! But that was probably *one* concept that Harmony had down pat, as a way to avoid getting all totally Bristoled.

Re: Also a Pony and a Plastic Rocket

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Heeeeee. I feel like making the obligatory fellatio joke my tmj seems to be inspiring in everyone else.

Re: Also a Pony and a Plastic Rocket

[lyr]

Frottage is like, some kind of cheese.

Well, I suppose it could be eventually. Since, you know, cheese is made by taking cream, shaking it a lot, and letting it sit for a while. Which is, of course, why showering is so important.

Re: Also a Pony and a Plastic Rocket

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Ewwwwwwwwwww.

*g*

Ewwwwwwwwwwwww.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

I don't know. :-/ Does the newsletter announce when there's a new discussion? If not, that might help bring it to people's notice.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Yep. Bless the newsletter's heart. They immediately began linking to everything posted in sga_talk and I didn't even have to ask because they are made of awesomecakes. That's a good suggestion though.

[tabaqui]

*hugs*
You're so wonderful. You really are.
Lemme see...

Maybe you should link this or get it into Metafandom, if you can't - you might get some awesome ideas.

I think when most people - not all - but most people say 'i want you to criticize me!!' - you know what i mean - what they *really* mean is 'i want people to tell me they can't find anything to criticize and i'm really just uber!!' You know?

Some people really *do* want serious con-crit, but most...eh. They're talkin' out the side of their neck.

I, myself, have a hard time leaving really *good* concrit. I have a hard time articulating why something doesn't work for me, and i also have a *very* hard time separating valid concrit from 'it's not how i would do it', you know? So i tend to shy away unless it's a friend, 'cause then i can ym them and really hash things out.

I don't know what you can do, to be honest. I don't know how to encourage people to be unafraid. I hope more people start to participate.

As for femslash - i love me some femslash if i like the characters. I invest more time in the boys, it's true, and i think a lot of that is because i get bored with women. I *am* one. I don't like the stereotypes and i have a hard time being interested in a lot of them. I think, too, that it's a lot easier to get called out on 'mary sue' ing when writing a female character, even when you're not - and i know that i want to make them more like 'me', rather than more like them. And i don't want to do that. So, i dunno.

Maybe i'm copping out, go ahead and tell me if i am. :)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

*loves on your icon*

Thank you for the cheerleading, sweetheart. This has been a rough week and I needed to hear somebody I like say nice things about me. LOL

I think that you and executrix are right. I think that part of the problem is that when people say they want concrit or welcome it in fandom, a lot of time what they mean is, "That abstract idea you have that doesn't affect me? It is nice."

I also think that you are right in pointing out that sometimes people just don't have the vocabulary to articulate what they think about a story, or even if they do they just don't know what to say. I sometimes don't know how to articulate what I think about a story and I have multiple degrees in talking about literature.

I also think it's partly what you allude to here in your comment:

I myself, have a hard time leaving really *good* concrit. I have a hard time articulating why something doesn't work for me, and i also have a *very* hard time separating valid concrit from 'it's not how i would do it', you know? So i tend to shy away unless it's a friend, 'cause then i can ym them and really hash things out.

In terms of sga_talk, there is no such thing as invalid concrit or invalid commentary. We are a strange mixture of squee and concrit and literary analysis and reader response which means that *any* comment on the fic, including I'd have done this differently is valid and interesting. We get comments that are mostly focused on aspects of the show that the fic raises with very little comment on the fic itself. Or comments about characters or comments about writing habits or the nature of such and such a fic genre. I think that maybe sometimes people aren't aware of the wide range of possibilities for comment in this kind of comm and shy away because they think we're looking for only one kind of thing.

As for femslash - i love me some femslash if i like the characters. I invest more time in the boys, it's true, and i think a lot of that is because i get bored with women. I *am* one. I don't like the stereotypes and i have a hard time being interested in a lot of them. I think, too, that it's a lot easier to get called out on 'mary sue' ing when writing a female character, even when you're not - and i know that i want to make them more like 'me', rather than more like them. And i don't want to do that. So, i dunno.

I don't think that's copping out. I know we've had conversations about fictional characters and desire before and I remember you saying one time (and I am so paraphrasing you badly for this was literally years ago) that you didn't want to sleep with Spike or Xander and you didn't fantasize yourself as a superhero put into their world. Instead you'd rather be the person living next door that's, you know, YOU that gets to be their friend. And I remember you saying that you shied away from writing that because it was just too Mary Sue.

I also remember talking to maybe cathexys (aaack; I hope it was her and I'm not talking out of school) and she said something along the lines of, "I am not all that interested in reading BDSM in het or femslash because I am a woman and some of the issues it pings are just too close to home for me." So it makes sense that some women don't want to read about women having sex because it feels too close to their own experience and they don't want that for whatever reason (which is not really what Cath was saying but I am extrapolating here). Heck, I have admitted publicly in this journal that I have problems writing femslash sometimes because it feels like I am exposing myself.

[tabaqui]

I think, though, that people *think* there's a certain way to concrit, and if they can't do it the 'right' way, they can't do it at all. Which is silly, but then - no offense, please! - when you have people who *do* have degrees in things, and use that kind of academic speak that is a bit dense for us 'outsiders'...it makes it harder. Not saying, at all, that you or anyone else has tried to be all 'high falutin' and show us dummies what's what, but i know that a lot of people are intimidated by people with experience, degrees, a more polished way of speaking/writing. I try not to be, but sometimes i sorely feel my lack of college education.

And yes - exactly. You paraphrased me exactly. I have no interest in exploring how Buffy feels - she doesn't really excite me. She's so *foreign* to me, in many ways - ways i can't change because then she wouldn't be Buffy. And yes, i have no desire to expose certain bits of myself to the world, and a fem-centric story would most likely do that.

I *am* planning a mary-sueish fic, though. Heh. I'm going to write pretty much what you said up there, except i believe the woman is going to be a client rather than a friend/neighbor. We shall see! :)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

No offense taken. I get exactly what you're saying and I know that intimidates people sometimes. I don't know what to do to make that feeling go away for people. And I hate that some people do when I really think it's not something that those of us with that education are even *thinking* about. For example, you will always be one of my favorite writers because your pieces are so grounded in concrete, sensory details and you have such an interesting framework of literary allusion that underpins much of what you write and you have a real gift for Spike's characterization and I didn't know you don't have a college education and it never even occurred to me to CARE because you are a good writer (and therefore by necessity a good reader) and I'd be happy to drink in anything you had to say about writing.

Re: female characters, I am very different than you in that, while I am attracted to those aspects of female characters that are like me (Willow's nerdiness or Buffy's bad luck with men or Teyla's new role as a mom), I am most interested in the way the women in these shows are *not* like me. Whenever I fantasize myself into a show, I'm always a Slayer or a kick-ass Marine or one of the YED's special kids. LOL I have delusions of grandeur. I like the women in my shows for the connections we share, but also for what they are that I can never be.

[tabaqui]

And you? You always make me feel way smarter than i know i am.
*smooch*
:)

It's so funny - while it would be fun to be able to kick ass, the 'kick ass' chicks on the show usually have one or two traits that just annoy the fuck out of me. Mostly the 'i want to have sex with the main guy' trait, which....eh. Can we just *not* go there?

I want to be the mysterious and kick-ass stranger who is out for herself or family member *only*, helps only so far and no further, pisses everybody off but in the end gets what she wants and manages to not kill any of the 'good guys'. A little reluctant respect and she's off into the sunset! That or batshit crazy. That's always fun.

Weird, eh? :)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Ahahahahahahah. I totally want to have sex with the main guys. And gals. LOL

And batshit crazy is always fun. But really hard to write.

[tabaqui]

Heeee!
I never do. I guess, to me, that's too easy. I'm married - i know what it takes to have a 'relationship'. Self-insert into a tv show or movie should be blissfully free of all the work and hassles and just real-life *stuff*.

Which makes me sound like a bitter hag, but - i have a relationship, and the dynamics of another, even fake and 'one night stand'-ish, is more work than i want to pursue in my fantasies. Heh.

I love teh crazy. I think that's why i love to write Dru, and my original characters are always a little tweaked. It's just...fun!
:)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Hahahahahahahahhaaha.

Oh man. My fantasies are so excrutiating. Full of bathroom breaks for everyone and plausible explanations for everything, even when I do end up with the kick ass superpowers. LOL Since I am always myself, but souped up in these fantasies (usually at the moment I fall out of the sky onto Atlantis), I have a long angsty scene at the beginning where I realize I can never see Josh again and it's SO DRAMATICAL!! LOL

Who needs Dru when you have *this* kind of crazy, right?

[tabaqui]

*falls down laughing*
Oh, man.

I think the only superpower i've ever really wanted was to be able to do *anything*. Like - watch someone fix a car, and then be able to do it. Mimic, i guess. That would be so awesome. Or speak any language upon hearing it.

I admit, all the little fussy details of food and bathrooms and picking gravel out of knees after a fall or whatever are always there in my head, but i have to resist putting that sort of thing into my stories. I just let myself have a *few* details, and let the rest go or otherwise, yes, a billion words about opening a bank account or some such drivel. :)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

That would be an awesome superpower. Like Jared on The Pretender, I think was the name of the show. That was a cool show.

On a more serious note, usually my transformation involves a huge degree of self-sacrifice--putting myself in physical danger for other people and I think that is so interesting to me, both in my fantasies and in reading/watching the source material because my own courage is so sorely untested. I'd like to think, for example, that if a kid every brought a gun into my class, I would put my own life in front of that of my students. I'd like to believe that I could sacrifice myself for the greater good or do the right thing even if it was dangerous, but I just don't know. I rather suspect that I'm too cowardly and selfish. I think that's why I am drawn to heroism and characters that are struggling with their hero status, like Buffy or Dean.

[tabaqui]

I think...my highest aspiration is to be calm and not panic and not make things worse. I don't really have any faith in myself being altruistic and selfless. Yes, if i were a teacher i'd try to save my children, but no way would i die for any of them.

For my own, i can say yes, but strangers or other people's kids i'm afraid the most i would do is to try to keep the situation calm and distract the threatening person or whatever. But - throwing myself on a bomb or in front of a bullet? Probably not.

Yup, i'm selfish. The will to live is stronger than the will to save other people. Heh.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Let's hope that neither of us are ever in the position to find out what we would do.

:)

[havocthecat]

I don't know you at all, and I've never read your journal, or your fic. I'll admit that right now. So, speaking from the perspective of someone that doesn't know you? It does feel a little bit like you're copping out.

If you're willing to explore male characters, and go beyond the stereotypes that they're invested in - which I presume you are, but like I said, I don't know you, it just sounds like that from what you've said - why aren't you willing to explore the female characters, and go beyond the stereotypes they're invested in?

Like I've said, and I'll reiterate: I don't know you. But female characters bore you. That raises a lot of flags from my perspective, as someone who loves female characters and is willing to dig down and extrapolate a whole lot on them. Heck, I just posted an entire essay on Kate Heightmeyer's characterization, and she's been in a grand total of four eps of SGA.

(Also: Darla/Dru icon! *loves*)

[tabaqui]

Some female characters are very fun to me. Darla and Dru being two of them. Faith, as well, and Fred to a degree. Gwen and Tosh from Torchwood, *all* the women of Deadwood, i can go on.

But.

I don't feel an interest in exploring them because - and this sounds weird, i know - they are women. *I* am a woman. To me, it's like sitting down and talking about giving birth or cooking a meal. I'm not *interested*. It's all to familiar in the broad strokes, and the women who are totally the opposite of me - like, for instance, Willow or the mother in 'Seventh Heaven' or Lilah....don't spark anything in me. I don't have any interest in their stories, because in real life, i wouldn't particularly care for them, or about them.

When i was younger, i wrote women in my original fic. I felt like i *had* to - that i was 'letting down the side' if i didn't write women. And i wrote them like *i* liked them, i didn't try to make them 'conform' to anything. But...i wasn't interested in them. I found myself writing more and more male characters until for a while that's almost *all* i wrote.

I don't feel, anymore, like i'm giving up all my fem-cred if i write men. I'm writing the voices that speak to me the most, and the stories that interest me the most. I won't force myself to write things i don't feel. Cordelia is very cool, but i don't want to explore her doomed love for Angel - i don't *care* about it. I just....can't. I've changed Anya, Willow, Dawn, Faith and Buffy's story arc in fics i've written, but they've never been the main focus, and i'm content with that.

I don't do essays on *anybody*, though, heh. I'm more a story person - character meta doesn't flow from me much.

I don't think it's so much a matter of 'willing' as...there just isn't anything there to draw me in. It's like - i love Torchwood. Fabulous show! But. I have zero desire to read or write fic about *anyone* on that show. Anyone at all. Their stories, however cool, just do not inspire me to write more or other.

The comment limit? Yes, I hit it. (1/2)

[havocthecat]

I... Wow, I have no idea what to say right now. Because, the thing is, it's not really that you didn't drum up participation. It's more that, you know, femslash participation in the Gateverse is at an all-time low, and has been for, oh, at least a year now, despite the best efforts of me and a few other people. (Femslash being at an all-time low is appalling, really, given how little of it there was to start with.)

Elizabeth Weir is off the show, either dead, a prisoner of war, or hauling around the galaxy on an Ancient battleship, depending on what version of canon you choose to believe. Kate Heightmeyer is dead, and in a lovely, victimy sort of way. Katie Brown is...someplace. Miko Kusanagi has been hiding in the Astrophysics labs since Letters From Pegasus, and I'm convinced she's sharing Simpson's bottle of vodka and commiserating with her.

Laura Cadman is back on Earth, bitching that she can't blow shit up as easily, and probably commiserating with Jeannie Miller and Sam Carter over that fact. (They use C-4 as poker chips, of course.) Teyla's mostly stuck in the background, relegated to Earth Athos Mother status, and Jennifer Keller's in the infirmary, doing her thing, and getting advice from Marie and Biro.

Obviously we're never going to see Teer, Chaya, or Mara again, and Norina from Inferno died painfully, as did Perna and Helia. We can presume that Sora's on Genia somewhere, at least, right?

There isn't much in the way of women on the show that have any sort of continuity to them. I hear we get ourselves an all-girl team this season. (This is me being horribly bitter: Yay. That's what we need! More women who will show up, have potential that never gets realized outside of fanfic, and then die painfully or get shuffled off to Earth, never to be seen again!)

Most of us that write femslash in SGA are either writing other pairings now, or actively on the hunt for a new fandom. There's barely any canon support for femslash left. :(

I love the idea of [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com], but I didn't find out about it until I was in the midst of my summer crazy time. I had [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] to crank out with my co-writer, my dad was having his Annual Health Crisis, and I had three performances in two weeks, complete with tons of extra rehearsals, and brand new costumes to crank out for a seven person troupe (that went down to six people abruptly and mid choreography). Which explains why I haven't participated.

Also, er, any time I've had free time, it's managed to hit during one of the McShep weeks, and, frankly, that pairing isn't one of my favorites. (Er, wait, why am I feeling a need to be apologetic about that? No one gets apologetic about not being into my pairings.)

Anyway, if you're looking to drum up femslash discussion, try posting a link at [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com]. We're pretty good with most things that go up that are related to femslash. (We got seven people signed up for the last mini-ficathon! For femslash, that's pretty good numbers.) Heck, post links to older discussions - are those still open? You might want to mention that (even on the comm), because I don't know if I can go back and comment on older stuff.

I'm sure you know about the noticeboard, and I know I've seen links on the newsletter. Get your friends to pimp it out on their journals, maybe, when you put up discussion posts?

Heck, if the stories for discussion fit the categories that are considered "rare" in SGA (not Elizabeth/John, John/Teyla, or John/Rodney), you're welcome to pimp them at [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] too. (I'm the chief mod. I can totally give permission.)

Re: The comment limit? Yes, I hit it. (2/2)

[havocthecat]

Erm. And you really, really don't want to hear me talking about representation of women and queer female relationships in fandom. (Er, also, what? There are non-femslashers who say they're interested in queer female relationships? Seriously? Where? I hang with the het and femslash crowds mostly, and I don't generally see that from non-femslashers.) I get even more bitter than I was in the rest of this comment. (My journal has a bunch of flocked posts, which you can now read as I've just friended you, about the subject. The more bitter ones are locked further, and if you're interested in reading those, I'll add you to the filter.)

So, um. I think this came out more bitter than I'd intended. (Two series' worth of bitter, really.) I hope you don't regret us just having friended each other. I'm a very big advocate of speaking my mind.

And for the record, I really do appreciate all the things you said about my fic. I just felt awkward replying and discussing my own fic. But the fact that you do enjoy it so much? I really, really appreciate that.

Re: The comment limit? Yes, I hit it. (2/2)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I think I have a very unique group of friends on lj in that most of my flist members each write a wide variety of kinds of fic--gen and het and slash and femslash. I have only maybe one or two people friended who only write male slash. So maybe I'm hearing a skewed version of The Way It Is?

Also, I'd love to look at those posts. Even the most bitterest. So filter me up. :) Are they tagged in a certain way?

Lorraine does not mind bitterness. Or the speaking of one's mind. If you can handle my penchant for speaking of myself in the third person, I'm sure we'll get along just peachy.

And finally, I completely understand feeling awkward about discussing your own fic. I'm just glad I got the chance to read such a wonderful piece.

Re: The comment limit? Yes, I hit it. (2/2)

[havocthecat]

Maybe? I have a few multipairing people on my friendslist, which is nice, but a lot of one or two pairing people. I tend to flutter between het, femslash, and gen writing myself. I read slash, but tend not to write it. I get the occasional plotbunny but suffer from crises of confidence with it, not to mention the nigh constant desire to write female characters in depth.

I recognize a couple of your flisters, and even have a couple of them friended myself. :) I like the multipairings, or people who, even if they don't write other things, will read almost anything. It's nice.

My bitter posts are tagged as snark filter (eta: which I've just added you to), and my non-bitter (mostly non-bitter?) posts are either at discussion: sga or discussion: gateverse.

I do warn you, my bitterness runs pretty damn deep when it comes to the Gateverse. :) So it's good that you don't mind that, or speaking one's mind, since I've got such a penchant for both. Mostly I don't talk about myself in the third person, but since it slips in there now and again, I can't particularly object to it, now, can I?

I'll reply eventually. Once I get over feeling a little awkward.
(Oh, yeah, try [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] for het fic. Though check with Miera before pimping things out. She's particular.)

Re: The comment limit? Yes, I hit it. (2/2)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I looked back over my fic masterlist post because I was curious about my writing breakdown, and while I predominantly write m/m slash, I write a fair amount of gen in any fandom in which I participate and a lesser amount of het and femslash. I think Die Hard is the sole fandom in which I've only written m/m slash and I've written at least one piece of femslash for every fandom I've been involved in except for Die Hard and Harry Potter. And within my m/m slash writing and reading, although I generally enjoy the "dominant" pairing of a fandom, I tend to seek out and want to explore the rare pairings. I get McShep fatigue.

*off to click the snark tag*

Re: The comment limit? Yes, I hit it. (1/2)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Your list of female characters and the way they've been either marginalized or written off the show entirely is very telling. Coupled with Sci-Fi's decision to chuck SGA in favor of a Gate-verse show they feel will attract the teenage boys, I'm feeling very pissed off on that score as of late.

(This is totally an aside that has little to do with the convo at hand, but I am also not chuffed that this new Gate-verse show is apparently mostly a cast of younglings. One of the things that I really enjoy about SGA is that everybody is a grownup (even if they don't always act like it *g*). Most of the characters are at least 35 and many are even older than that. Who will take me to the prom is thankfully never going to be a plot point on the show. Who knows about this new incarnation?)

And now, personal life aside. Your summer does sound incredibly busy. I hope your father is well. And performances! Troupe! Excitement! Are you an actor?

Re: your participation or lack thereof. I hesitated in making this post because I didn't want anyone to think I was pointing the finger at them or calling them out. Because we all have really legitimate reasons for not participating in X aspect of fandom. And as busy as I am right now, I am the last person to condemn anybody for having more important stuff going on. I think what I meant to say, and probably articulated poorly, is that I totally get Individual Fan's reason for not participating in any given week. I have a harder time getting 69 fan's reasons for not participating every week. Does that make sense?

Discussions do always stay open! Posts never close. In fact, we sometimes do get comments on fics way after the fact, so feel free to comment on an old post and I will definitely announce that again in the comm the next mod post I make.

And I will definitely pimp in the comms you've listed for the stories that will fit into those categories. Thank you.

Re: The comment limit? Yes, I hit it. (1/2)

[havocthecat]

The list of female characters? I could cry. Seriously. I could really cry. I am so freaking tired of it. Just. Dude. This is SGA only, and I know I forgot names. (I keep thinking, "And Larrin! And that cool girl from The Game! Plus Ellia!) I've been watching since season three SG1, and if you've seen that at all, then I'm sure you could get a clue as to how I could get on a rant about the female characters on that series, and how they were treated.

Actually, I have an entire (locked) meta post on how men get to be cool with their special powers through heredity (mostly), but women have to be violated in some way (becoming a host, being part Wraith, getting infected with Asuran nanites) to gain any non-human abilities.) Er. It's very, very locked, because I don't want someone thinking I'm slamming their favorite characters. (I save my rage for the PTB, by and large.)

I was at Dragon*Con last weekend, and the group I hung out with spent the entire weekend calling SG: Universe "Stargate: Voyager 90210." I think that was the general feeling of the entire fandom represented there, and there was a broad spectrum of fans.

(No, no, I completely agree about the fact that the characters are, by and large, the right ages for their jobs. It was so damn nice to have that.)

My father is about as well as he's going to be. :) He's a little sickly. I'm a dancer! ATS belly dance. We're a student troupe that dances for fun. It would be nice to be paid, but we generally do it for love.

I also see your point on the having a harder time getting 69 fen's reasons for not participating every week. (Did you see the [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] member list? And yet, only seven participants for our last mini-ficathon, and two of those were mods.) Totally get it.

Oh, good! I saw some interesting discussions, and I didn't comment, because I thought, "Meh, they're old. Who cares?"

Re: The comment limit? Yes, I hit it. (1/2)

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I have seen all of SG-1 and I completely feel you on the female characters and their development in that show. So many women we only get a glimpse of and then never hear from again. *sigh*

That's a very interesting point you make about the female characters only achieving "heroic" status through outside intervention. How does Carter fit into that schema? Yes, she has been a Host to Jolinar, but she is also is really damn intelligent in her own right.

Belly dancing! That is so cool. I love to dance. I do it very, very poorly with virtually no sense of rhythm but I love it. What does ATS mean? Is that a particular style?

[executrix.livejournal.com]

Did you know that if you're driving from Westfield, New Jersey to Jersey City, about halfway there will be a John Street roughly parallel to Elizabeth Avenue?

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

I love that.

There's a Winchester St. in Memphis and I kept wanting to take pictures for an icon.

The corner of Elizabeth and John definitely deserves iconination.

[lyr]

I own my own fault here, too. I could have done the reminder and assignment and gone back to comment on the discussion I missed, too. But I went off on vacation and have been having trouble getting caught back up, and I just didn't take that ball. Sorry, hon. I'll try to do some commenting, at least, over the weekend. As for getting more people to come and play, I'll think it over and see if I come up with anything. I am not sure much can be done about the femslash problem, though; there are simply far fewer people who will read it in the first place, let alone discuss it. But hey, we're bringing it to light for those few who do want to find and discuss it, and I feel good about that.

[lyr]

Oh, and P.S.: I have now read the comments above, and I think it's a really good idea of havocthecat's to go post links to both applicable new and past discussions on sg_rarepairings and sg_femslash.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Done and done!

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Awwwww, sweetie, don't take this post as a censure of you. I knew you were on vacation and we hadn't talked at all about delegating the posting this round and I am not annoyed with you. :) *smooches you*

Maybe some of the membership of the rare pairings and femslash comms will come and play with us.

[lyr]

Thanks, hon. But I'll go ahead and feel a bit guilty anyway; it's good for me.

I hope the rarepair and femslash people come play with us!